Monday, September 17, 2007

'Big Brother 8' - Live Feeds Report Into Monday Morning 9/17

Well, well, well ... look who's talking again! Of course one thing they mentioned (just before feeds were blocked) is that the show should have scheduled two cameramen in case they don't stay in the same room. True? I dunno.

They finally started talking again when Dick consoled a crying Daniele who wanted to go home. In a way, I can understand her feeling that way. I've thought in previous years that this stretch of several days with just the final two in the house and not knowing which will will is way too long.

I'm crying here, too. I want them to go home! The show should have had the finale last night instead of torturing me here for another two days!

Okay, I lie. I'm not crying. But this final two bit could definitely be shortened to two days without losing a thing.

Here are the happenings since last evening in that Big Brother House of Familial Affection and Devotion:
  • Dick said Eric's jury question was about why each person here deserves to be in the final two. He said Amber doesn't deserve to be here, Dustin doesn't deserve to be here, Jen doesn't deserve to be here ... feeds blocked.
  • Dick said Jessica's question was stupid and she said she didn't believe him. He said he doesn't care if she believed him or not.
  • Amber told Daniele she was pathetic when she questioned her. (Um ... of the two, I'd say in levels of pathetic-ness, Amber has Daniele beat hands down. In my observations, Daniele's main problem is immaturity and she's spoiled. As time goes on, those might change. Amber's got serious issues which need more than time to heal.)
  • Dick said that Amber was probably told the question and she most likely doesn't know the meaning of the word pathetic. Daniele doubts she (Amber) could spell pathetic.
  • Their talk was interrupted when there was a fire in the oven -- the BB voice called for a fire extinguisher. There were no fatalities other than the taco shells.
  • When the BB voice asked if all was okay and told them that their safety was their main concern, Daniele called out, "Liar!" The feeds blocked.
  • Although they're talking, Daniele is still upset that Dick told the jury that he did all the dirty work. (Well, he did!)
  • Apparently Eric asked Daniele to tell three reasons she shouldn't win. She only came up with one -- that wasn't going to attack him, wasn't going to campaign.
  • Jen's question was "Why should I vote for you to win?"
  • Dick once again told Daniele he didn't campaign against her and he's sorry she took it that way.
  • Daniele said that because of him she had to play two games in the house. Doing the dirty work was HIS strategy and she had to cope with others about it doing damage control.
  • Daniele told Amber she didn't want her vote -- it didn't matter.
  • Dick was taken aback by Jen's question about why the jurors shouldn't be in the final two.
  • Both Daniele and Dick think that Jessica was nasty in the questioning and her own strategy was to hang onto Eric.
  • Dick said that Jessica's strategy had Eric gotten evicted before her would probably be to sleep all day.
  • In the jury questioning, Jen said she didn't respect either of them as human beings. (Perhaps she respects them as some sort of marsupials? A plant form?)
  • Jen said she didn't want to vote for either of them, but she has to vote for one.
  • Dick thought that for the ShoToo time, they should sit around and trash their ex-housemates.
  • Daniele baked cookies ... again. I swear that's the only thing she knows how to make!
  • They trashtalked the others and, as a result, grew more of a bond as father and daughter. ;-)


There ya go ... they've now gone to bed for the day, er ... night.

103 comments:

Sandiekay said...

Are we going to find out when this is all over that all we had this year were a bunch of paid actors? I am finding it so hard to believe, any of it! Dick and Daniele cannot be for real. This isn't any type of family situation I have ever heard of. If they come on the live show on Tuesday and are all lovey dovey, I wll know for sure we were scammed.

Jackie said...

Sandiekay - Oh, I think they're real enough. I went back looking through their MySpace and Daniele's LiveJournal pages. They were very close at one time, but they do seem to be the epitome of dysfunctional.

Sandiekay said...

Thanks Jackie for responding. You have done a remarkable job with this site. This is my second year of catching you, found out about you last year. Have watched all the big brother's and was rooting for Eddie in the first one.... he may have been the only one to win that I picked...LOL! This season was a big let-down for me. Dick was so cruel and vicious in his personal attacks, and yet I think deep down he isn't a bad person.There was never anyone I truly wanted... except for Zach at the end, and that may have been because he was fighting the good fight. Thanks again, great job on your part!

nancy in pa said...

d&d know they won. it is a sealed deal. so why the need to continue to trash talk each and every person that comes to mind. they can no longer excuse it away with "strategy". what we see now is simply a refelection of their true character. it is one thing to accept cetain behaviors during the game....but the game has been over..and what i see and hear causes concern and pity.

alice in neverland said...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TICmbdeTFeA

Joe in NY said...

orkmommy,

The purfudry of the entire season has created a sense of psidery in my very soul!

Joe in NY said...

Nancy in Pa,

D/D really didn't like a few of the people in the house: Jen and Amber in particular. If they suddenly started remembering them fondly, would anyone believe it?

I think they are not only being true to their character but their feelings for the other houseguests - they didn't like a lot of them!

And, based on what I've been hearing on this board with the constant complaints about CBS casting, no one else did either!

And, keep in mind, they just got through getting hammered on by the jury - I wouldn't expect them to be showing much Christian charity at this point.

Joe in NY said...

Steff!

I thought I had your permission to flirt with Holly! Besides, she's made it quite clear she prefers Nikki Sixx to me (although based on her love of Dick, I would think Tommy Lee would be ahead of me also!)

Sasha said...

Of Dick and Daniele, I'd prefer Dick to win, however; I still have my doubts that this jury will vote on "game" and think it more likely they will vote "personal" (arrrgh, does not even one of them know they should be saying "personally"). Anyway, if they vote on a personal level, I can't imagine them voting for Dick. Dustin in particular was still being so nasty when they showed them at the Jury House. JMHO and I hope I'm wrong about the vote.

I agree that all this time with just the final two is waaayyy too long! Seems to me that each year, not just with these two, the final two mostly just trash the other HG's and congratulate themselves. I can't blame them for wanting to get it over with...I know I do by this time.

Thanks as always to you, Jackie.

Sasha

Jackie said...

That Alice in Wonderland YouTube video is cute. It may be one of the only true ties to the Alice theme this season -- Amber's river of tears!

meb said...

I agree nancy in pa... we already knew Dani's true side...she showed it at every turn... but for those who think Dick isn't truly this way in real life ... sorry, but he is. It's simply his personality if he gets pushed. That's him.

I believe Dick has a soft side for his family as well, but it doesn't alter the fact that they have seen this other "angry" side of him many times during their growing up years.

Joe ... quit cussing.

sue said...

Jackie wrote: 'Daniele said that because of him she had to play two games in the house. Doing the dirty work was HIS strategy and she had to cope with others about it doing damage control"

That is too funny, Jackie. They get to the jury and Dick can be as mean as he wants in his answers and insult all of them because that is showing his game plan strategy but Daniele has to be nice to them (to follow her plan) and instead shows her true feelings. Very funny and genius on Dick's part. Sue

Anonymous said...

Sounds like Eric is influencing the jury for Dick - per America...

I totally can understand the family situation - it could of been me and my brother - haven't spoken to him in 2 years either...

Joe in NY said...

sandiekay,

Unfortunately, there are plenty of family situations just like that. I actually know someone who did not speak to her brother for 28 years over $500 that he borrowed from their parents' estate and never paid back.

There are plenty of children growing up with only one parent or raised by grandparents.

If you don't know anyone like this, Amber bless you, you are living in Paradise (or 1890! :)

meb said...

sandikay... No paid actors... and if they do come on the show Tuesday all lovey dovey, you aren't being scammed. Dick almost always acts sweet to Daniele, but she only turns into Miss Niceness when she's on live TV or in the diary room which she knows will be shown on live TV.

All that happened on the recap was like Sydney said earlier... immediately following the finale'. So Dani was still a little upbeat.

Her diary room session was later, because she had changed her clothes, and you could see she was a little tense even then. However, she was smiling. that's our Dani... smile for the live cameras.

Dani is young and immature... simple as that. Some day she'll grow out of it and probably be sorry for how she's acted in these years, but until then you get what you get...

Anonymous said...

Joe, Tommy Lee is up there also. He however has made some bad decisons in the last couple weeks!

-Holly

Anonymous said...

I can't decide who i want to walk away with the money. I'm kind of over it, and way more excited to see the AP reveal!

-Holly

sherry said...

nancy in pa said...
d&d know they won. it is a sealed deal. so why the need to continue to trash talk each and every person that comes to mind. they can no longer excuse it away with "strategy". what we see now is simply a refelection of their true character. it is one thing to accept cetain behaviors during the game....but the game has been over..and what i see and hear causes concern and pity.

the ppl in the jury know they've lost so why the continued sour grapes? is it a reflection of who they are too? aaaAfterall, Dick and Daniele wouldn't be in the final two if the other houseguest hadn't kept them in..not voting them out when they had the chance in the hopes of using them for their own gain. Enough already.

sandiekay said...

Joe...of course I know there are dysfunctional families, I haven't been living under a rock. However, Dick and Daniele take it to a new level. And comparing me to Amber, is that what you are doing? I will not have it. Haha! What I am trying to get across is that they "act" like paid actors because they turn it on and off like they are rehearsing scenes. All families have their problems, but ocme on........these two?

Joe in NY said...

sandiekay,

I made no comparison between you and Amber. I always use "Amber" in place of "God"

meb said...

Wow sandiekay...he's comparing you to God! Wonderful!

Joe in NY said...

Holly,

So, what you're saying is: Tommy Lee has made bad decisions but he's still ahead of me in the race to capture your undying love?!?!?

I must say, that hurts just a little. If I make a couple of bad decisions, can I move up the list? Or do I just need some tats?

Joe in NY said...

Oh my Amber!

Meb, you've misquoted me again. I was not comparing Sandiekay to anyone! I'm so misunderstood.

Nonetheless, Amber bless you all

ORKMommy said...

I still say Daniele would make a great candidate for a super model. She's thin as a rail and has a very selfish attitude. Maybe Tyra will call her instead of Amber! Then Amber will just have one more reason to hate Daniele!

"Whaaaaa...I was supposed to be on ANTM, not Daniele!! Whaaaaa...she got Nick and my modeling job!! Whaaaaaa!!!"

Joe in NY said...

Sandiekay,

I think D/D are more functional than a lot of families I've seen. They have trouble communicating, but even the Cleavers didn't always understand the Beaver!

There does not appear to be any abuse or abandonment, there does not appear to be any gangs or drugs, I don't know why people think they are the worst family ever.

meb said...

Joe... you seem to be in quite a perfudry. I didn't misquote you... it's the way you wrote the comment... and there you go, cussing again!

Joe in NY said...

Orkmommy,

I agree with you 100%.

I think the people most likely to get work out of BB are Jessica and Danielle because I think either of them could be models. Dani actually has some artistic photos on her blog which are quite good.

As for Amber, the most pathetic image of the year had to be her loud praying (you can't tell me that wasn't meant for the cameras) to "Amber" that Dick had called her a bad mother for using drugs, but that she was in fact a good mother, and she was sorry she had taken drugs so she could work harder...

Of all the misfits in the BB House of Misfits, Amber is the one who should NOT have been cast. She was interesting as a train wreck, but she is the one most likely to take the pipe after they let her out of sequester. She is too emotionally fragile to have been subjected to BB and CBS really should be sorry.

Joe in NY said...

meb,

I see your confusion (and MINE), based on the follow-up post. If you look at my original post, I didn't compare Sandiekay to Amber or "Amber". I just invoked Amber as a blessing.

Hallelujah!

nancy in pa said...

joe in ny....i fully understand that the donatos didn't like people in house. the issue is that they go beyond not liking them....into the realm of trash talking and vugarity..and i can not excuse it for any reasons including the ones you give them. no, i do not expect daniele to talk fondly of anyone she doesn't like. however..not liking someone does not give a free pass to trash. jackie often (and rightfully so) reminds posters to be careful how we express our feelings and not to resort to degrading others. respecting others even while disagreeing. as far as d&d having just gotten hammered by the jury...their trash talk has been going on since day 1. being hammered by the jury did not bring on that behavior. it was already in place. while christian charity is the last thing i would expect to see from them....CHARACTER should be expected. if dick and daniele had limited their behavior to the game..and during the game...then i could have excused the behavior as game play and strategy..and though i might not have liked it, it was game. their attacks are personal and beyond game. i cannot sugarcoat or excuse it..as you seem to do.

delee said...

Could not resist:

pa-thet-ic

SNAP

meb said...

joe... I knew when you first said to Sandiekay ...If you don't know anyone like this, Amber bless you,..." you were using an Amber blessing and not comparing her to Amber. I was pulling your chain... thanks for taking the bait... I love it if I can get one over on you.

I now know that if I don't put a LOL (or some other disclaimer) you'll never know whether I'm kidding or not.

Anonymous said...

Joe,

I'm very impressed that there is now a race. To quote daniele, "who would have thunk it?"

Tats, and millions of dollars... there is where he is ahead of you. I may be young but i am crafty. and poor! (quit my job last week... my life is one big adventure!)

Selfish attitude comment aside, although daniele is gorgeous and thin, i definitely think that shes too short to be a model. Oh the tragedies of being under 5'7

-Holly

Joe in NY said...

Holly!

So now I have to buy your affection rather than simply earn it?!?!?

Suppose I already have a couple million laying around, would you be moving in shortly?

Nancy in PA,

I don't see the issue in them trash-talking the competition. Dustin and the others were trash-talking the Donatos in sequester. I don't think it is a big deal. Everyone does it at some point in their lives to someone. Have you really never said to your brother/husband/friend that "so and so is a moron, they couldn't find their fly with a map"?

The main complaint with Dick was his abusiveness. Saying that Jessica had no game, or Jen was a train wreck...well, it's not nice, but it's not abusive, just insulting.

No one ever said they were saints, or even nice. They are, in many ways, just like us - only with a camera on them 24 hours per day. You never know what a web cam might catch me muttering to myself even as I watch BB, or read this board, or read the news.

1/2 the country thinks George Bush is an idiot and says so (Yale diploma notwithstanding). Would you tell them that they are rude and inappropriate for not being nice?

Sydney said...

or 5'9" ..

I do think Playboy will come knockin for Daniele. She will want to do it for the fame and the $$ but I think she'll turn it down unless she can only do "artistic" nudes.... meaning no showing of anything. If you're a celebrity or norotious, and they want to "get" you bad enough for sales, Playboy has been known to let some do that.... but you at least need to show your top, or your full behind, so I think it's a no go.

She is beyond beautiful OUTSIDE. Dani wants the big time, so I think she'll try to do MTV hosting gigs or whatever acting gets thrown her way. She's bright, can read well aloud, as she did on the comps, and knows how to follow direction from producers and turn on her charm for the cameras.. Problem is, she truly doesn't realize her VOICE is a huge issue.

She'll probably just hope that Nick makes enough money to buy her a car, a new purse, etc... (from her journal she asked someone to buy her some high end bag a few years ago...) and be done with it. Whatever makes her happy.

Joe in NY said...

Sydney,

I doubt Nick and Dani are still together (were they ever?). If he buys her anything, he's the biggest idiot in the house!

Among the many issues that I won't get closure on is Dani's face-to-face with her boyfriend, Kris. Love to see how that turns out. If I were Kris, I could have lived with the showmancing (up to a point), but she 153'ed him long after he was out of the house!

sandiekay said...

Joe...there does not appear to be any abuse or abandonment? Is that why Daniele's grandmother ended up raising her? And my dear sir, verbal abuse which I am sure Dick has dealt more than his fair share of on family also, lasts "forever".

sharon said...

Oh,sandiekay,I have to disagree with you. I don't think a person can say and do the things dick did and still be a "good" person. If he has the ability to turn this on and off like a faucet,it lives inside of him and heaven help anybody that crosses him or his darling brat.And it goes to both of their natures that they continue to sit there and make horrible remarks about every single person in the jury house. No good sports,no recognizing anyone else's game play. I expect to see dick walk on water any moment now.Thank God this will be over real soon.

sandiekay said...

Sharon, I understand where you are coming from. Guess I would like to think someone can't be that "EVEL" in the long run. He has moments where he actually acts like a person who has a heart, but then when I think about it, they are always moments connected to either Daniele or Vincent.

Joe in NY said...

sandiekay:

We do NOT know how Dani ended up with Dick's parents. We do know that Dick was still around. There is little point in speculating on why. IMHO

As for his "abuse" of Dani, verbal or otherwise, we also have no evidence of that, mere speculation. I know a guy who has a very short fuse and a very foul mouth, but he spoils his children something awful and never even raises his voice to them. We've seen Dick with Dani 24/7 for 3 months and he has always been unbelievably patient with her, although he has complained a bit behind her back.

Dick may have actually done all the things Eric suggested. Dick might also be a candidate for Father of the Millenium. We don't know and we should be very carefull about speculating. IMHO

I have seen dozens (if not hundreds) of family situations worse than what I see of the Ds in my life. That is all I was ever saying. You had suggested that they must be fake because they were so unreal (that's what started this discussion), I countered that I knew plenty that were worse, including real documented abuse (physical as well as emotional) and that the Ds have their issues but there are far worse out there. That is not a defense of the Donatos, just a suggestion that they are not the worse, nor even bad enough to be considered unbelievable. IMHO

ORKMommy said...

Anyone remember Kimberly Caldwell from American Idol Season 2? She's hosting for the TV Guide Channel. Maybe Daniele could be her co-host!

Joe in NY said...

to Sharon and Sandiekay (& everyone else),

Do you remember the Star Trek episode with the parallel universe? Kirk and Scotty and McCoy(?) ended up swapping places with their other persona. In the other world, it was a very Darwinian society with murder a legitimate means of career advancement (interesting...no?).

Kirk and Scotty played mean for a while until they could find a way to get home. When they got home, Spock informed them that they had immediately recognized the problem and imprisoned the alter egos. Kirk asked how they knew, and Spock replied that "As civiled men, you could act like barbarians; as barbarians, they could not act civilized."

It is perfectly possible for someone to fake anger, rage, and hatred. I could let loose on this board a string of vulgarities much worse and much cleverer than the silliness that Dick used repeatedly (he had a limited repertoire, IMHO). That does not mean that I ever speak like that in my everyday life.

I'm not saying that Dick is as warm and cuddly as I am. But I'm really not sure where the lines are drawn between "normal Dick", "normal BB Dick" (stressful, artificial situation) and "intentionally abusive Dick".

Just my opinion! But, for what it is worth, I think people are kidding themselves if they really think that they couldn't let out an intentional string of vulgarities if they wanted. I mean, it's not a question of virtue or anything else. We all know the words, we all choose whether or not to use them. We all know how to "act": "that's a lovely dress", "wow, you look 10 years younger", "you haven't changed since high school" - all pleasant lies. Can anyone really say they are incapable of telling similarly unpleasant lies?

Anonymous said...

nancy in Pa,100% in agreement! I couldnt of said it better! Ditto!
jo in Nevada

CC said...

I agree Jackie with your statement that:
"In my observations, Daniele's main problem is immaturity and she's spoiled. As time goes on, those might change. Amber's got serious issues which need more than time to heal.)"

Daniele is immature and perhaps also part of her disjointed and dsyfunctional background. Although many of us come from some form of dysfunctional family, just in varying degrees. I always thought I came from a very warm, nurturing, healthy family and while I did, now decades later, I realize we have our little moments of dysfunction. LOL.

But Amber's problems seem more psychological in nature and it is unlikely she will outgrow that behavior and thinking at her age. It is more likely with a great deal of therapy and the longer she is sober if she works all aspects of the program; she will become more stable.

But I agree, Dani and Amber are quite different. Daniele is just young, immature, and bratty. She has a chance to outgrow that. Amber needs more help to deal with her cogntive, behavioral and emotional issues.

May said...

As the show has progressed; I have begun to think that Dick goes over the top with drama to make better tv as well as game strategy. As we saw Dani egg him on to distract Zack in the final comps. And I am thinking the Diary Room might have been influential in getting Dick go off and be harsher than he all ready is.
They just probably never envisioned he would go overboard at times.
But I do think Dick wanted to entertain us in these late night feeds, especially.
And Dick did get people talking on these forums and blogs.

Dick does have a soft spot for his kids and he loves them dearly. Despite his many shortcomings, he does truly want Daniele to be happy.
Daniele will see that, hopefully, as time goes on.
When so young, often we expect more of our parents and want our parents to meet this Image of who We want them to Be instead of accepting them as they are. Sure it is great to get family therapy and strive for better communication; but sometimes we have a choice to accept or reject our family members. And in the end, I hope Dani decides to hang in there and give their relationship a chance to grow and mature.

helen said...

This is my first post, but I've been an avid fan of Jackie's for several years now. IMHO, Dick is a complex man, with both good qualities and bad. But when the bad button is pushed, he can be very bad, and I don't think a lot of it was an act, a lot was true rage. You can recognize when someone is going off. Sure, some was total acting, and had me laughing so hard I had tears. But a few times, I got that feeling in the pit of my stomach that this man had crossed the line and was now in a full-blown rage, going for the jugular. I doubt very much it will be a fairty-tale after Tuesday. If Danielle doesn't win, she will be furious, after all "this sucks, and it's so hard. Nobody knows how hard it is to win only $50 K when your Dad wins $500 k!" I think they'll be just a bit closer, maybe talking every now and again, but nothing much.

Sydney said...

WITT -- if you're reading.... You are the only other person I've seen mention that they watch Friday Night Lights!!! I am alsoa huge fan, and now won't feel so lonely when I post something about it on Jackie's Blog.

Sorry, I know it's off the BB subject, but I think we all don't mind a little distraction regarding Fall shows at this point.

Any other FNL watchers? Most impressed with the very REAL portrayl of marriage between the coach and his wife.

Anonymous said...

Dick's behavior and language should not be considered acceptable for ANY reason or under any circumstance. I don't care if you've seen and heard worse (joe in ny) if you think it was just game play, if you think it's okay because deep down he cares about his kids, or if the other people in the house did it too (although no one was as bad as Dick). It isn't right, it shouldn't happen, no one should speak to or about other people that way and no one should have to listen to that kind of talk. The more we excuse it the more commonplace it will become and I for one don't want to live in a world with DICKS!

Anonymous said...

Joe in NY you are seriously cracking me up with your blessings from "Amber" and the Hallelujahs! You are spot on with your assessment of CBS putting that emotionally fragile woman in the BB house. I see a relapse in the near future for her.

XTina

Anonymous said...

do you wonder if in fact the show has dick adn danielle talking for the benefit of the recap and such? maybe this is still 'game' for BB/CBS.

sherry said...

i found watching Jessica explain to Eric that all holidays etc would have to be spent in NY inyteresting..she's pretty much a spoiled princess herself and i wonder what Eric's family thought watching that. As a Mom i'd be saying run sweetie..marrying a princess if nice in story books but a real drag in a real relationship. Watching Jameeka's rendition of "Oh Lord wont you buy me a Mercedes Benzs" was nice to.

Anonymous said...

I have to wonder how Amber passed the psychological portion of the interview process. I realize that crazy personalities make for good TV but how did someone with serious psychological problems make it through. I really hope CBS is going to provide her some counseling assistance when this is over - she is not going to handle finding out what people really thought about her well. I see a total breakdown in her future.

sherry said...

I meant outside of NY lol opps..sorry

sherry said...

Anonymous said...
Dick's behavior and language should not be considered acceptable for ANY reason or under any circumstance. I don't care if you've seen and heard worse (joe in ny) if you think it was just game play, if you think it's okay because deep down he cares about his kids, or if the other people in the house did it too (although no one was as bad as Dick). It isn't right, it shouldn't happen, no one should speak to or about other people that way and no one should have to listen to that kind of talk. The more we excuse it the more commonplace it will become and I for one don't want to live in a world with DICKS!

and yet most ppl on this post seem to think he should win 1st place...kind of sad isnt it when being a spoiled poorly raised 20 yr old is considered a bigger sin than actually being abusive....GO AMERICA

Joe in NY said...

Actually, I think the world should have more vulgarity and cursing, and flat out inappropriate language. It would rob the words of their meaning and take a weapon away from those who would seek to hurt.

I mean, who said those are bad words anyway?

Joe in NY said...

anon 12:32

You misunderstand the entire discussion. I never approved of or disapproved of Dick's behavior. My post was strictly in response to someone saying that it was so unbelievable that it had to be fake. I simply suggested that I had seen worse, so it was perfectly believable.

Anonymous said...

I can't help but think of the Sopranos. Italian families. Filthy mouths. Can be vicious. BUT --- Love their children more than anything.

The Donatos.

Anonymous said...

if they really loved their children they would set a good example

Mianna said...

With mention of the constant cookie baking of Daniele....I was curious....Is she actually EATING the cookies she bakes?

She is so super skinny, so is Dick....are these zero calorie cookies she's baking? If so I want the recipe!

But seriously.....are they eating all these dozen of cookies?? Espeically when it's just the 2 of them in the house?!?!!

sue said...

Joe Said: "Actually, I think the world should have more vulgarity and cursing, and flat out inappropriate language. It would rob the words of their meaning and take a weapon away from those who would seek to hurt.

I mean, who said those are bad words anyway?

9/17/2007 12:57 PM"

Sue said: I have heard that argument presented before. It has flaws. Sue

Joe in NY said...

Sue,

So does the counter-argument.

Anon 1:02 p.m.

Something of a racist statement don't you think?

Nancy in Seattle said...

Danielle clearly thinks she deserved the big prize and will be totally bummed if and when her Dad takes it. I doubt she will ever "forgive" him for winning...not unless she eventually decides to grow up. Part of growing up is just a decision to stop thinking of yourself as the center of the universe. She has a long way to go. As for her age...my grandchildren are more mature than Dani and they are 15 and 17. Her emotional age seems closer to a preteen. I think Dick is in for a rocky road with Dani and maybe he just needs to give her time and space after all this forced togetherness. I hope they don't "fake it up" for Tuesday. Even second is $50,000 plus her stipend..not bad for a summer of not working at Hooters. That will buy her a nice trip to Europe and a car.

Anonymous said...

Joe, you are always the first one to point out a racist statement. All you are doing is drawing attention to them. IMHO I think you just like debating people and it really doesn't matter what the topic is.

Kelly

Anonymous said...

The only time Dick and Dani seem to get along is when they are bashing the former housemates.

Anonymous said...

Kelly,
You took the words right out of my mouth. I was just going to say that Joe must be a frustrated attorney cause he seems to love to argue for the sake of arguing!

Jackie said...

In order to define a statement as "racist" I believe race would be involved. I personally wouldn't call Italian a race. It's could probably be classified better as an ethnicity or national origin.

If anything, that statement might be prejudicial against Italians, but I wouldn't necessarily call it racist.

That said, not all Italians are Sopranos or Donatos.

Joe... why did you point that comment out so long after the fact? That was obviously a one-shot long ago comment, and now it will probably become a new can of worms long after the anonymous commenter has moved on.

Jojo said...

as much as you all criticize dani for the way she acts towards her dad, I know that if I was suck in a house 24/7 for 3 months with my dad, as much as I love him, I probably would shoot myself. I think there were moments during the last hoh contest in particular, where you could see that dani really loves dick and cares about him. they will be just fine when they get out of the house and are not spending every waking moment together.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I'm just 'speechless'...

I know Amber cried, acted crazy, and yes a tad bit out of touch with reality, BUT, did the wonderful editors have to show her like that? J. saying "you can be a model", and then having a still frame with cheeto in mouth....and the fat belly..come on guys. The poor girl is already going to have enough trouble on the outside. (mainly thanks to CBS editing) why must you salt the wound?

And as for Dick,
thank you for reminding me how uterly vile is truly is. I was begining to root for him the last couple of days afer getting fed up with danis attitude.

Orkyma,

Love the cow,

ORKMommy said...

I'm so glad my cow is bringing a smile to so many faces!

And I wish the cow could win BB. I could use the cash!

:-)

Star said...

My grandmother is Italian, I don't consider " Italian " comment racist, its of national origin.

DEANNA said...

Nancy in PA... I think a lot of their talk of the other HG's is due to the fact that they are not allowed to talk about people on the outside without the show having permission for them to do so... Or CBS would be looking at a lawsuit. So they are forced to talk of the game and its players. Besides, I'd much rather hear them talk about Amber, than some stranger that i have no idea about. I also think they are rehashing each player and their annoyances with them due to the fact that the jury just got done trying to make them feel bad for being F2...Besides, each HG is guilty of trash talking. I'm sure if the cameras were snooping in the sequester house, we would hear the same trash talk about D&D... It's the nature of the game when these people are forced to live and be consumed by ONLY eachother. It happens every season and it will continue on...

I can't wait to see the jury questioning, especially the "good Ambers" questioning of Daniele. Then for that good girl to get out in the real world and see how good people really thought she was... I'm sorry, but I rather hang out with a girl that whines and says "this sucks" a lot, than with a girl who is a self professed "former manipulator", anti-semite, crybaby who compliments herself all the time. I grew up with a girl who was a lot like Amber and it wasn't any fun to be around.

Joe in NY... As usual I agree with all you have to say and how well you say it :) You don't argue for arguments sake, as all your opinions of BB don't change. You are just very articulate and know how to make a good point... Some are just sour grapes...

Joe in NY said...

Sorry Jackie,

Pointed "it" out as soon as I saw it. Not that I care (I am Italian-American myself, but not very sensitive), but it did seem relevant to the issue of whether Dick's behavior was so incredibly unacceptable as to deserve sanction from CBS.

My grandmother would have flipped her gourd over that comment. I think we all should acknowledge that almost anything you say can be construed as offensive. It is as much a function of the listener as the speaker.

All this talk about Dani's size and weight might very well be offending people of similar size or of opposite size. It really is in what you hear.

All this talk about Dani's age and how 21 year olds "should" behave could be offensive to the younger members of these boards.

Dick's language makes some people wince, but it is milder than any number of rap songs I've heard over the years - and less threatening! (at least to my ears).

I didn't mean to create a hullabaloo (really, I didn't! :).


Kelly,

We Italians love a good heated discussion over wine and pasta! But I'm not the only one on this Board! (I'm just the obsessive compulsive one who can't just let things drop until I've beaten them to death!)

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I can't help but think of the Sopranos. Italian families. Filthy mouths. Can be vicious. BUT --- Love their children more than anything.
The Donatos.
9/17/2007 1:02 PM

==============
WOW, i don't want to turn this into an ethnic/nationality war, but damn, that was a real blanketed statement to make. i can see why you only signed ANON. no nerve to step up. i was raised in an italian household and we had nothing like that at all. had one of us said the wrong thing, our mouths would have been washed out with soap.

you should certainly be ashamed of yourself to attach such labels.

that would be like me saying all blacks are murderers because of OJ.
or all germans are anihilators because of Hitler. heck, i could go on and on, but never would the actions of one encompass an entire group.

sharon

Joe in NY said...

Deana, excellent point.

It might well be DR that is dictating what D/D are talking about - at least to some extent. Clearly, last night's show was somewhat staged. I'm sure DR or the BB voice had told them where to go and what to talk about. They might still be dictating it.

ORKMommy said...

Deanna - For once I agree with your defense of the D's. :-)

The only thing that pi$$e$ me off about the jury questioning is that it took about 2 hours to complete, but we'll only see a few minutes of it edited down on the show. Why can't they post the whole interview session on their website after the finale? (Or do they do that? I don't remember it from any other year.) I don't mind editing, but if you're gonna give us 24/7 access, then let us see EVERYTHING!!

ORKMommy said...

Deanna - On a side note, you seem like you're probably into rock music (because of you love for Dick). Did you watch Idol the year Chris Daughtry was on? I have his album and I don't ever get tired of it! I'm listening to it right now! I also have Elliot Yamin's and I have a playlist with Chris & Elliot. I love those Idol boys!

Joe in NY said...

Orkmommy,

Good point.

I kind of think their 24 hour access is at philosophical odds with their edited shows. In a way, they ruin each other.

You get one version of reality if you watch the feeds, then you get a different version of reality if you watch the show. The feeds ruin the story that the edited show is trying to tell. The shows frustrate the feed-watchers when they feel they aren't in agreement.

I think that's why I prefer Survivor - my reality gets handed to me as a carefully edited drama that is fun to watch without the confusion of spurious details.

Mianna said...

With mention of the constant cookie baking of Daniele....I was curious....Is she actually EATING the cookies she bakes?

She is so super skinny, so is Dick....are these zero calorie cookies she's baking? If so I want the recipe!

But seriously.....are they eating all these dozen of cookies?? Espeically when it's just the 2 of them in the house?!?!!

9/17/2007 1:32 PM

Asking my question again....I really want to know!

Joe in NY said...

mianna,

I've seen her nibbling on them, so she does eat some of them.

maryanne said...

joe in ny - you said:
You get one version of reality if you watch the feeds, then you get a different version of reality if you watch the show. The feeds ruin the story that the edited show is trying to tell.

--

wow, if that wasn't the truth. i don't have the live feeds, but i was watching plenty of you tube clips after someone posted one, i was bored out of my mind and watched plenty.

i had no idea of a few things and was surprised at many. mainly that they even enjoyed each other's company as a whole at times. the things that were edited to seem one way came through totally different in seeing these clips. i was both shocked and surprised.

i don't know that i will ever go live feed, but this year i learned there are places to see some things, something i knew nothing about in previous seasons.

maryanne

Anonymous said...

I continue to be surprised by the number of commenters who feel that Dick's behavior is far beyond the norm. At the risk of repeating my self here, I spent my working life as a flight attendant. I've experienced far worse behavior, and not on a tv screen--in person, and to my face. And not just once--many, many times.


Dick was on a tv show where he was encouraged to be confrontational.
I don't for a minute believe that he is that obnoxious in real life.


Sky

Anonymous said...

I am a proud Italian. When the relatives got together and the men went in the other room to talk (women in kitchen cooking, laughing), the men got into heated discussions and you could hear the words pouring out of their mouths. Also, when my dad got really angry, he'd lose it and the words would pour out (rare, but it happened) and my sisters and I would run and hide. Yet, through it all, my dad loved us more than any of you can imagine. He'd give his life for his daughters. He looked at us with love, talked to us with love.

Growing up, all our relatives lived around us and we got together all the time. Same thing: men in other room with such language that they could easily compete with D any day.

It was an Italian thing for me and.. I am a proud Italian! And my dad was a great person. And he loved me.

So those who say these comments are somehow racist, not at all. They are part of the life many of us who were raised by the "old school" Italians lived with and didn't become dysfunctional because of. Ciao.

Mar in Upstate NY

Joe in NY said...

Mar in Upstate NY,

My family was much the same, although they rarely cursed.

But, the Soprano's? Really?

Of course, my bottom line is always the same, it isn't what's said, it's how it's heard.

My father refused to watch the Soprano's on principle. My grandmother refused to watch The Godfather movies on principle.

I just think (IMHO WARNING! IMHO WARNING!) that all this talk about "acceptable" vs. "unacceptable" behavior/language is fruitless. Who decides what's acceptable?

You don't like Dick, that's fine, that's your opinion. You don't think Dick should be on TV, that's fine, you've got an off switch. But to suggest that there is something wrong with any of us because we don't get upset when Dick is yelling - well that is a little offensive to me.

I've been in academia most of my career. There, every word was carefully monitored. That Sopranos comment could get you fired from a college I worked at - no exaggeration. When I was in graduate school, we had a major protest on campus after the cafeteria offered "Plantation Peach Cobbler" on the menu (it was inherently racist - I'm NOT kidding).

I went to work in industry for a while and when I heard the people on the assembly line talking...I laughed. They threw around language in casual conservation that was as bad or worse than 90% of what came out of Dick's mouth (the B-word, the C-word, the N-word, the F-word ALL THE TIME). The sheer divergence of that world from my academic world just made me laugh. Why? Because they all got along much better on the line than my colleagues in academia who were constantly parsing their words.

Just remember: what offends you need not offend me. What you say without offense might well cause offense to me. There are no absolutes.

Anonymous said...

Sky, those of us who haven't had the "pleasure" of having a DICK in our lives, are counting ourselves lucky. I don't know anyone like him at all.

ORKMommy said...

Oh my...twice today I've agreed with someone that I don't usually agree with!

Joe - Hear, hear...well said chap! (I hope I'm not offending anyone from England).

I work in a predominantly male environment and there are A LOT of sexual innuendos thrown around. It doesn't bother me at all, in fact I start a lot of them. We actually joke about "HR Moment Number 1,564,894". I'm sure it would bother a lot of people, but not me. I just roll with it...

I guess Dick bothers me because I used to be verbally abusive to those around me. Not so much the swearing, but the put downs and the "I'm better than you" kind of stuff. I know how it affected my friends/family so I don't have much tolerance for it anymore.

IMO, Dick is a dick but there's still something about him that I can't help but like...

Joe in NY said...

Orkmommy,

I hear you! And, for the record, I've never defended Dick's behavior. I'm just not horrified by it.

But posters are constantly trying to convince me and the other Dicksters that we should want him thrown into the Pacific. And, they're implying there is something unacceptable about me because I'm indifferent to Dick (much like Zack was, I might add).

ORKMommy said...

Joe - You kinda remind me of Dick. People love to hate you! So I guess you do have "a little Dick" in you. And no, that's not a sexual or homosexual comment!

Anonymous said...

sky'
I'm in the airline business too, so i know first hand what you go through with pax. It still doesn't make Dicks behavior acceptable, In fact that behavior is not acceptable under any circumstances.
and yes he is like that outside the house, read his Myspace page. It's really telling and quite sad.

Cat5

Joe in NY said...

Orkmommy!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure how to take that! I'm sure you meant it with love.

I think I'm more like Zack: a little Dorky and horribly misunderstood.

(Of course, since Holly has a Dick fetish, we'll go with the Dick comparison...wink, wink little angel!)

Anonymous said...

Orky,

Does your 'cowboy' utter words like Dick does. If so I'd mooove on. ;-)

I'm old it's my only attempt at humor

Anonymous said...

Jackie just started a new thingy, guess i should move on.

DEANNA said...

Joe in NY... So well said once again. I too can understand someone not liking,disapproving or not understanding Dick's actions in the house. But when they call out the posters here as somewhat questionable people for liking or accepting Dick, it burns me up. I know a lot of people who speak freely with ALL words as if they were no different from any other word, I know people who frown on such words and I can relate to them all. To me, they are only words.

With Dick, I don't think he walks through his regular day and screams obscenities at all, but cross him and I'm sure he will tell you exactly how he feels. That doesn't mean I dont think he drops the F-bomb all the time, because many do, and you can tell he does. I've seen too much good in Dick to let his words and gameplay affect me...

Orkmommy...Glad when we can agree on something...lol!! Yes, I do love rock music as well as many other types. I loved Chris Daughtry, Constantine, Blake and other idolers... As a teen, I was very much into the punk scene and was a huge fan of the group that Dick wears on his shirts (Suicidal Tendencies), plus I used to have my head shaved back them,except my bangs and it was all dyed black (cute eh?lol) I am now a mom of 4, but that edginess is still there and is probably a big reason why I was drawn to Dick to begin with, but I like the guy and thats why I have stayed a fan... :) Plus, he is such a hottie... minus the farting & spitting...lol!

ORKMommy said...

Ha...I got to you!! ;-)

I was just thinking about the discussion from earlier about perceptions. There's the perception of those who only watch the show, those who watch the live feeds, those who read about the live feeds (seeing it is different than reading it)...and there are those who don't watch but glean a bit from various conversations and websites.

I work with a guy who is very interested in BB, but his wife won't let him watch. Hearing his take on the various HG's is interesting. He really has no clue! ;-)

ORKMommy said...

Anon 4:41 - My "cowboy" only rarely swears and is very mild mannered. He's a typical Hollywood cowboy. Very quiet, not a man of many words. Which is probably why we work...I tend to talk a lot and am very opinionated. Who woulda thunk!!

joy n said...

Deanna: comments of 3:01 and 5:03 Joe in NY: comments of 4:12 and 4:26

Very well said, both of you! I try to ignore the comments where it's said that we condone Dick's name-calling just because we are pulling for him to win. I ignore them as much as I can because my Irish tends to well up and I don't want to get chastised by Jackie for losing it.

You both, however, have a wonderful way with words and say sensibly what I wish I could. Thanks for defending our right to root for Dick.

Anonymous said...

I'm rooting for Dick also since there really isn't a viable alternative. I respect ya'lls right to cheer him on also, but his mouth is really bothering me. I can tell people exactly what I think when mad or upset without using such 'colorful'words.

cat5

RiseandShine said...

joe...
You need to qualify your statement.
Maybe you're like Zach, a little dorky and misunderstood, but you better add "but not an idiot" before the trolls get you!

I really rolled when I read what Jackie wrote about Amber calling Daniele "pathetic". Amazing. I can't wait to see the video of the jury Q&A.

Anonymous said...

Joe, i wouldnt call it a dick FETISH exactly... just a dumb reality show crush. Isnt that what makes summer tv interesting??

-Holly

steff said...

Joe in NY, You may flirt all you want. Being a Scorpion, I get green-eyed when I feel I'm being ignored. I may have to adapt my schedule, seems I'm sleeping 9during the heat of the day) when you are out & about. Holly does seem to like older men, and you're looking for a breeder so...what will be will be. I married an older man, 20 years my senior. I don't remember, but I think it was Orkmommy that listed the reasons to date/mate with older men. She was correct! Hugs and kisses to you and yours.

Anonymous said...

Here's what I think about Dani's grandmother raising her and Vincent. After Dick and their mom divorced, Dick fought for custody but Dick works in a bar. I don't know about bars in California but bars in GA stay open to one or two in the morning. The managers are there for a good hour or two after closing to do paperwork and clean up for the next day. So, Dick probably doesn't arrive home until three or four in the morning. It probably takes him a couple of hours to wind down in order to go to sleep. Been there. Done that. The thing is when it's time for you to go to sleep, you want to go. You do not want to get up an hour later and fix breakfast, do homework, etc. The grandmother probably got custody because of his job. Plus, his main working hours are at night. I don't know about the rest of you but I would rather for my children to be with someone I trusted than a stranger or even a good friend.
I don't like Dick. However, I do think he cares about his children and would do the best he could for them. Most likely at the time, his mother was the best he could do for them.

Kay

Anonymous said...

By the way, is it Holly, I agree Nikki Sixx is sexy. He's a lot sexier than Tommy Lee and I seriously doubt he would ever let anyone bitch slap at the VMA's. LOL.

I also used to be a punk-rock chick. I also shaved my head, the entire thing. I also understand the way Dick talks to people and am a little more willing to overlook it because of my personal background. The only difference is I did all this in a small Southern town in the Bible belt. Talk about being an outsider. I didn't have the luxury of blending in. There are even times when I've acted the same way but then I grew up.

Kay

Anonymous said...

or all germans are anihilators because of Hitler.

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Eller said...

I think people are kidding themselves if they really think that they couldn't let out an intentional string of vulgarities if they wanted. I mean, it's not a question of virtue or anything else. We all know the words,

I totally disagree IMO its how your raised, your statements are labeling.

I've noticed you'll intentionally choose words carefully for the sake of continuing a repeated discussion, from days ago. Here's one of those carefully chosen ONLY IN MY OPINION ITS ALL LOVE @@
Your wrote " if they wanted " << No I would NOT want to degrade myself nor lower my standards, therefore Why would I Want to let out an intentional string of vulgarities, ITS A LEARNED BEHAVIOR <<< ONLY real reason anybody would want to repeat such vugular words.

NOPE We ALL weren't raised listening to all those words << you think we all should know >> Doesn't mean we live in a Bubble, Imo its being IN denial about different cultures in general, Because we aren't like you. Many of your comments << I say this with much Love << Reminds me of someone who'll reveal to others, " I heard " someone told me ", instead of putting a name to source, lack for a better word, enjoy rattling cages.

Lars Eller

joy n said...

Excellent Eller!