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Keep in mind, you need Adam to NOT win POV. If he won, seems like he might pull Porsche off which would get Jordan booted. I know y'all don't think he can win anything. But these comps are often pretty random and pretty diverse on skill sets. Maybe he's really good at morphed pictures...
If you want Jordan to stay, you need anyone but Adam to win POV
Petals, dear, from the other thread. Pandora's box with Jessie and Tori can hardly be viewed as game changing.
As for U.S. Code Section 47 Chapter 5 Subchapter V, you really need to read up. We had this discussion before. (BTW, Jackie knew someone in production and Jackie believes Section 47 Chapter 5 applies to BB)
In a nutshell: Anything with prize money potentially falls under the "Quiz Show rules".
It has never been tested on reality shows like Survivor (there was a court case season 1 but settled out of court) TAR and BB that have prizes at the end could well fall under it. It is a somewhat open question and one that no one at CBS wants answered, I'm sure.
My argument against "the fix" is partly the "Quiz Show rules" and partly the credibility issue. If y'all found out that the first 11 seasons of BB were scripted, how many of you would tune out for Season 12? They can't afford to lose credibility.
That said, I've always maintained that they are somewhat manipulative within the game. And definitely of the viewers. The edits are done to make us feel certain ways. DR sessions are manipulated by the questions asked that you never see. For example how many dumb things might Jeff have said in DR that hit the cutting room floor? You'll never know. How many questions did they ask Jordan before they got the one cute clip they show us?
The feeds make it harder to manipulate BB as completely as they can TAR and Survivor where we end up seeing 15 hours out of a couple thousand hours of film. But in all cases, I am personally quite sure that they stay short of any obvious manipulation of evictions and results because that would ruin their credibility and (potentially) run them afoul of the law.
Can you imagine the uproar from US if an old HG came forward and simply said that the DR told them to evict Jane Doe?
We also have to remember that if Adam doesn't at least TRY to win POV, he stands a chance of being nominated. If Porche or Kalia win they'll surely pull themself off the block, in which case Adam goes up. The vote would probably be a tie and he would have to trust that Rachel would save him in the tie breaker. While I don't think he can win against any if the ladies (except maybe Jordan), it's his only true chance at safety.
ORK Totally agree. Of course Adam really could have used HOH last night and Rachel beat him into dust. It really comes down to what the comp is and who is any good at it. Adam has been in a few quiz comps and he won the one POV (with help from Jeff throwing it). I hope Jordan also recognizes how important the POV is...not that it seems to matter since she will not suffer pain to win! LOL
I still think that if Jordan makes it to the F2 it is because Rachel carries her there.
I would rather watch my cat hack up a hairball than watch this "Reality" show. If anything, CBS shows it's didain for the viewers by rehashing old personalities and relationships. This season has been manipulated in every way by AG and the team.
Joe - Adam has flipped once again. He's now with Rachel and Jordan. Supposedly the three of them NEED to win the veto -- well, one of the three. And, if one of the three win it, the noms will remain the same. Adam told Rachel and Jordan that if either Porsche or Kalia win and one comes off the block, he'll understand if he has to go up as a replacement.
Since Adam waffles a lot, but I haven't seen him commit without following through, I guess (for now) he's with them.
Jackie, that's interesting. Based on what you were saying about his conversations with Porsche it seemed like he was still on the newbie bandwagon as late as today????
If I'm Jordan, I'm not sure I can take that chance. Adam hates Rachel and why does he want to sit next to Jordan at the end. Maybe he thinks he needs Kalia gone also and this is an opportunity.
LOL Joe. Geeminy baby, I meant that production manipulation isnt "fixing". I just hate the manipulation. Quiz Show law or not, I believe there is alot of manipulation and I just dont really like it. I miss the gritty realism of the older seasons of BB, Survivor, Real World, etc. Reality TV these days is anything BUT reality.
PS - you know how cute you look when you lecture? hehe
Honestly, I know everyone hated Shelly. But isn't Adam about the least trustworthy person to have been in that house this year? He is a classic floater. He was mostly in Jeff's pocket but even early on he floated to the power. But in the last couple weeks he went from being clearly in the vets camp to clearly in the newbie camp to clearly in the vets camp?!?!?!? Why would either group trust him at this point?
And that said, if you were Adam and you win POV wouldn't you use it to oust Jordan? Rachel can't play HOH next week. With Jordan gone the newbies definitely have HOH and it's just a matter of also winning POV and Rachel's gone.
I don't know that he'd do it. It's probably too big a move for the little guy to make. But if he were ever going to play the game isn't that the move to make? He ends up (by accident) in a 3 on 1 against Rachel. Rachel has no choice but to win out. (Course she might have to win out anyway given the little help she's getting from Jordan lately.) And even if Rachel wins out, she might well think floater Adam is the best bet for F2.
If Adam wins POV and doesn't use it, he's nominally in an alliance with Rachel and Jordan against Porsche?!?!? But how does he make the F2 in that group? Float back to Porsche? Could work. But if Adam doesn't save Porsche what does she owe him?
I don't know, seems like almost a 50/50 on his using it. I think the stronger play is to take out Jordan because she is the one remaining HG likely to win with the jury in the F2, especially if Rachel ends up on the jury also. And then Adam has numbers. The other way the best he can hope for is a 2 on 2 with Porsche and that seems a messier path to me.
Adam never swears to do something and then does the exact opposite. In a lot of ways, he's a nice Dr Will. You don't know what he'll do but he is clear he is unreliable. Both sides need his vote and try to keep his vote. They never say "hey, Adam was with us, I can't believe he's not now." It's like the American voter, until he goes in and votes, he can change his mind. Is a candidate going to write a voter off?
The challenge with Adam isn't "can we trust him?" It's always "are we strong enough now to get him to vote with us?" The second question may be far easier to judge and manage then the first would be -- at least in the house. For those of us out here, it is often easier to judge the first but not in the house.
Remember, Will won the first time he played but came in fourth the second time.
I also think that the move to oust Jordan may not have the same "wow" factor that the other big moves have had. Danielle may respect it but I am not sure anyone else does. At this point, Adam may well win because he has flown under the radar much longer than expected.
Can we stop hypothetically saying that Adam will win the veto. He hasn't won ANYTHING so far and wont start now.
The veto comp is between Rachel and Porshe.
~~~
P.S. I also don't think that people should be chastised for their opinions, even if they are not in line with Joe's or Jackie. I add ~~~ to distinguish myself from other anons because they can be actually be trollish sometimes, but some of the statements that other anons have posted, I don't think deserve the responses they've been getting while other non-anon members (i.e. Petals) with similar opinions are not eaten up as much. I sometimes agree with the anons' opinions (like show manipulation which Dick and other people who know producers and have been on the show have attested to).
I just think everyone's opinions should be respected despite whether or not they feel comfortable attaching a name to it.
joe is right, adam could completely flip back to p/k with the veto. jordan and rachel know that. so at this point they have to hope anyone but adam wins the veto or jordan could go up and out and rachel cannot play for hoh so.... she (rachel) would have to win the next veto (which she pretty much needs to do anyway) I am rooting for rachel all the way. it would be ashame to see adam jordan in final two with all the hard work rachel has done. still i think they made the right decision getting shelly out, she was awful to them when "her" side was winning and I for one am glad I don't have to read her lies anymore.
When it comes to anons, there is a percentage to use the anonymity to troll. Yet here, we do have what seems to be a good bunch posting under anonymous. I would appreciate it if the regularly commenting anonymous people would sign off with some sort of name (or characters) as a few already do. That would help a lot in discussions!
If you think people go out of their way to agree with me, you haven't been in Jackie's house long enough. LOL
I respect everyone's opinion including dissenters. There is an anon (I assume the same one) who seems to come in every now and then and just throw out semi-inflammatory ideas repeatedly. That's the only person whom I have referred to as a troll. I could be wrong. Maybe this person really needs to say "Jordan is a floater" 8 times a day to annoy the Jordan lovers on her (I'm not one). And I'm not sure what "I'd rather hack up a hairball than watch..." accomplishes.
Again, I could be wrong, and if I am I'm sorry for referring to said person as a troll. It just seems that individual is less interested in discussing the show and more interested in trying to tweak the rest of us.
I've made my case against gross manipulation of result (Section 47 Chapter 5 Subchapter V LOL) and many people here disagree. I've never called them ignorant for thinking so or called them names. One anon has said things like "anyone with half a brain can tell its manipulated". Again, that strikes me as a little "trollish" but it could just be the way that person expresses themself.
I've personally been on the short end of the J/J stick on this board forever. Only lately has there seemed to be a few people that have agreed that maybe Jeff can be a jerk. But despite the fact that we've had this big disagreement on J/J for a couple years, I don't feel like people are hating on me for the disagreement and I hope the J/J lovers don't feel that I'm hating on THEM. (J/J are a different story. ;)
Maybe I should drop the "troll" from the discussion. I guess I can't really know if that anon really is just trolling or not. It makes no difference. At various times I've tried simply ignoring them completely, discussing with them and (I admit it) a little name calling when frustrated. For that I have previously retracted and apologized.
I like Jordan as a person. I have very little respect for Jordan as a BB player. But it still irks me (don't know why) when that anon just drops bombs on Jordan for no apparent reason. It just seems intended to inflame without intending to discuss.
If I'm wrong about that anon, I apologize. I will endeavor to simply avoid anything I think is strictly inflammatory in the future.
I should also point out that Petals has taken some heat and even been chastised by Jackie (or others) when she goes over the top. The difference between ORK or Witt or Petals saying something is that they do have a history here. As much as they can totally be making up a fake name (Petals is not her real name! :), they always use that name and so they end up owning their comments good and bad. If ORK says "I'm fed up and can't watch this season anymore" it is going to be viewed VERY differently than an anon showing up and saying "This show sucks, how can you people not now it's fake"
No one has jumped on you, ~~~, (I kind of love that symbolic name!) or Sharon or Lilli is because y'all sign your anons and so you end up owning all of your comments and so we know that even if you are incensed or inflammatory it is only part of your story here. An anonymous anon doesn't build up good karma in the same way. I mean maybe the anon I've called the T-word really has posted dozens of posts with friendly banter that have a totally different tone. But he/she won't get credit for those in my mind because they will seem to have come from a different person because of the difference in tone. With no name (or symbol!), all I'm going by is tone.
And it is always a bit suspicious when someone shows up on any board dedicated to a single thing and just trashes that single thing. If this show is unwatchable and you hate it, why would you go to a blog dedicated to it just to express that it is unwatchable and you hate it. All it does is implicitly insult the rest of us who really ought to get a life and be less vested in what happens in that house!!! LOL
Adam tries so hard to not only lose the comps, but to make a big display that he lost and is dissappointed in himself. BB could make a final show collage of his stomping,slapping, etc antics after he (once again) dropped a comp. When he does that, he is showing the hgs that he is not a threat. They can ignore goofy ole Adam, in other words. But it looks like a play to me. Contrived in a way. If Adam made it to the end and gave the jury a speech that said how hard he worked to pretend to float, to come through it with no (or only Por) alliance and have no one the wiser, then he might make a good point with them. Especially if he pulls out some big move in the next few days. I am not saying I think Adam has a master plan in BB house, I am saying that it could be possible for a player to do that and asking if he can actually be as worthless at challenges as he appears? Belle
Now, back to you our regularly scheduled speculation:
I really would love to be able to grant each HG, in turn, the power to right now pick their Final 2 mate. Just to see who they would really take if they had to make the call now.
I mean it seems like Rachel takes Jordan and Jordan takes Rachel. It also seems like Kalia takes Porsche and Porsche takes Kalia. Adam takes...????
But if actually forced to choose from the current HGs, would they go that route? I mean Kalia might want to take Porsche as an intellectual exercise right now because she's not making the $1/2 million decision and they are allies. But if she's going to make the $1/2 million call does she really want Porsche next to her with the jury. I mean if I'm Kalia I stick with Porsche for as long as I need her, but in the back of my mind don't I want Rachel or Adam next to me? Adam because you can argue he did nothing but Rachel because you think (we'll find out) that the newbie/vet split on the jury favors you. I mean if Kalia and Rachel are the final 2, the jury is:
Brendon/Jeff/Jordan - probably Rachel votes although Kalia feels a bond with Jordan also
Dani/Shelly/Porsche - all huge haters of Rachel
Adam - a strong disliker of Rachel
Same argument for Porsche.
I'd just love to know what they'd do if they had to.
I almost think Adam might prefer to be opposite Rachel at the end for the same reason.
Jordan I really think would be true to Rachel because she doesn't seem prone to "gameplay". And I kind of think Rachel would lean toward Jordan although if Rachel is really thinking ahead she needs Jordan on the jury unbetrayed by Rachel to give her a solid group of vet votes and she probably really needs Adam to be opposite her. There was so little respect for Adam as a player, Rachel might actually get 5 or 6 votes opposite him.
The later in the game it gets, the more the "who do you want to sit next to?" SHOULD matter. (These hgs don't seem the best strategists to ever sit in the house)
Also, someone mentioned that Will won the first time but finished 4th the 2nd time in All-Stars. That is true, but frankly still a testament to how great a player he was. Look what happened to Russell on Survivor when he went back in. He wasn't even doing much that was naughty but they still threw a comp to get rid of him.
In All-Stars everyone KNEW Will was the biggest liar on the planet but starting the 1st or 2nd week Will volunteered to go up on the block. And then he talked the house into keeping him. And he ended up with his entire alliance in the final 4. Only an angry Janelle managed to take him out at 4. Boogie or Erica wouldn't have.
In a lot of ways, I think his performance on All-Stars was more masterful than the original. And remember I don't like Dr. Will! LOL I respect him as maybe the best player ever. But I always found him insufferably egotistical and even a little creepy. But when everyone wanted him out and everyone knew he was a big liar who only wanted to win for himself and he volunteered to go on the block...I had to give him his profs.
Belle, you could be right. But that jury seems so convinced of Adam's worthlessness that I doubt they would believe him. If he actually managed to win the Final HOH then maybe he could make that case and have some people think it might actually be true. Sad to say, he also doesn't look the part.
Part of Dr. Will's strategy was to always throw comps. But he was this tall, thin young man with the pretty face and so people believed he was throwing comps as part of his strategy. Sad to say if Dr. Will were short, heavy, old and homely they probably wouldn't. And speaking for the tall, heavy, old and homely I also don't think his lying would have been as effective. You can hate that its true, but appearance counts for a lot.
Joe, I agree with your opinion of Dr. Will. I am fuzzy on that All Star season, but think I thought at the time that Dr. Will decided who he would let win, so even while leaving, he was the one who controlled the house. Wasn't it a gift to his buddy? Belle
If there is any manipulation at all, it takes place in the diary room. Seeds can be planted with a few words, seeds of distrust, ideas, plans. "What if" questions. Not that I think that's happening - I hope that the diary room disembodied voice asks only what the particular hamster thinks and feels without external direction. (But notice that whenever a hamster brings up a diary room session, the feeds get cut and the hamster is reprimanded, so we don't really know.)
I think it would be interesting if a show DID have blatant manipulation in the diary room. And show it. Like a voiceover to us says, "Bob trusts Suzie implicitly. We are going to attempt to destroy that trust." And then they hint to Bob that Suzie blah blah, and we watch to see what the effects of that are. That's like real life! We are manipulated by the media and by our gossipy friends every day. So the show becomes *about* manipulation.
Of course BB can't do it. Once done, they could never go back. But if they ever decide a season is the last, that would be a great final show.
~~Silk, I agree that would make for an interesting show. I also think it would be allowed under any game show law (if that law is ever defined). How to make it to the end while facing a gaunlet of troubles is the goal of winning BB, and those troubles, imo, can be anything and everything the producers throw at a contestant, including telling them things that could ruin their game. I remember a few years ago some show (Jerry Springer?) revealed what went on in production. The producers role was to get the guests as angry as possible with the other guests just before the two met on stage. By that time, the guests were ready to fight each other. It was all part of the show. I think that translates into many different productions. It also, as Joe mentioned with Wrestling, lets the fan decide to believe what they see or believe what they might not know happens in production. In BB, there are many who choose to believe the hgs. Belle
With so many Anon issues I figured out how to put my name at the top from hence forth.
With all of Adam's comments to feeders last Wed he seemed to be telling us at this point he was sticking with R/J all the way so I think even if he wins veto R/J are in F4.
Adam did quite well in the Toga/Ball Back & Forth comp, and even if Jeff hadn't thrown the Corn Hole Adam probably would have made a respectable 2nd place. Just saying, he could win a POV against all women.
Joe in NY proposed a BB Mt Rushmore idea awhile back. Just want to offer my pick for one of the spots...
Rachel if she makes F2 this season. Think about it. Last year she was reviled and ridiculed in and out of the house and was first to jury.
So this season she comes in with a bad reputation, her controlling nut job fiance, a I am a constant victim of people who hate competitors mindset, and two goals...win BB, AND redeem all of the negative attitudes people have about her.
An impossible task right?
Brendon was booted and Rachel unfurls her wings and begins to fly...she is now F4 and if Adam stays loyal and J/R or A win next weeks POV she is F3 and at that point virtually guaranteed F2!
So, she is days away from a very possible BB win. At F2 she could easily argue that J is wonderful but already got the money last year and has only won a single comp this year. Rachel has won tons of comps already with more to follow to make F2. And she did it with all the odds and most of the HGs against her.
A lot of jury members claim they will vote for best game play not favorite person on which Rachel hands down surpasses Jordan.
Harder than winning BB tho is changing hearts and minds. Well if this board is at all representative Mission Accomplished!
A tiny few of us have been Rachel supporters all along. But in the last couple of weeks support, even admiration, for her has been growing and growing and growing. She has finally gotten a large measure of the redemption she sought and I believe if she and Jordan can boot Kalia and Porche they will make F2 and Rachel will absolutely get at least four Jury votes and win BB13!
Dr Will move over we are carving Rachel's head right next to yours...
The comps aren't rigged in either show, Survivor with the comps being bigger and more elaborate are much harder to stage and play out to a single player, BB on the other hand has multiple comps that can be set-up and played fairly quickly, therefore they can pull and set-up a comp that suits a certain player type over another much more easily - so in essence they can "rig it" for a certain player's strengths.
As you can see some shows can be more easily manipulated by production for certain outcomes than others (not that they can or do just that it's easier for them to do so). You know you all of a sudden see a contestant going around counting things or going around looking around at things then the next comp is a "how many" or Q/A on things in the house makes you wonder how they just "knew" to start doing that.
Just my two cents worth on my own observations....
Dang the first half of my post didn't make it up....Just the second half??? well at least it makes sense cause I can't remember what all I typed... lol
I post occasionally as Anon, only because yes it's a "game show" (after all they are playing for prizes during segments and striving for the big prize at the end). Yes winning HOH could be considered "winning a prize" as you get things the others don't (letter from home, goodie tray, special accommodations, etc...). The POV gets a "special power" of sorts in that they have the opportunity to throw a monkey wrench in another person's game play. Have/Have Not comps you win "good food" while the loser's end up on slop, which will ruin some people's game play, not to mention weakening them physically. So all in all it can be looked upon as a game show (a long drawn out game show). Bringing in prior "guests" can be useful (the newbies can gain some valuable info on how BB works from them) but bring in to many (esp strong ones like these last six) and you take the chance that they totally dominate the house (which I'm sure they would have if Evil Dick hadn't stepped out week one).
I prefer that the game be played with all newbies for the most part with the occasional game that has veterans, not this every season they bring folks back. It's almost like there's no one good to choose from so we'll bring these guys back so it'll be more interesting and we'll have some ratings... Which is true to a degree, but the die-hard fans are going to watch the show regardless. A show like Survivor who brought Russell back three times - well that was brilliant as he was a very disliked person and basically ran the show the first two times (and should have won both times due to his game play but they voted how they felt not on game play) only on the third time when people knew who he was and how he played did they throw the comp to get rid of him (again brilliant) but that just shows that a player that polarizes the audience in a good or bad way will always be a "bring-em back" person in the eye's of production as a way to keep ratings up.
Production on BB can play around with the comps and change them up to suit there needs or wants, they have several to choose from at any given time, not like Survivor where they are mostly very elaborate builds that can take a week to set up. Survivor has all the comps for the season pre-staged, built, and tested usually before the contestants arrive. Survivor I think is the only game where I think production doesn't really care who wins (I think others don't really care either, but some of their comps seem skewed towards one person or the other - case in point putting Pandora's box that has $10,000 in it out for a girl that's a "VIP Hostess at a club" which tells me she is a money grubber (Most VIP waitress/hostess types are pretty girls that get the guys liquored up to "rent" VIP rooms that have overly priced items in it, the more the "VIP" spends in there the bigger her cut is). That Pandora's box had her name all over it...And releasing the "duo twist" back on the house only helped the veterans, which helped production keep the ratings up... There's nothing new here, production will cut and paste things to show someone in either a good or bad light as they see the need in order to keep things interesting and keep people watching.
We all have pet peeves regarding HGs. Hypocrisy, meanness, etc.
Here's a big one for me...Dani did it a lot so I will use her as the example but they all do it:
Dani tried 1000 times to get Adam to vote to keep her. He refused because he knew he couldn't trust or beat her in comps, that it wasn't good for him if she stayed.
Dani ranted about how stupid Adam is, how he can't see that voting for Dani is the sole way for him to move forward, he will be out next, he is too afraid to play the game, he is in love with J/J, that Dani is the sole player, risk taker, big thinker, BB lover ever to play the game everyone else is a moron that is here to write J/J a check.
People in and out of the house constantly put forth their best way forward ideas. And then immediately state that anyone who doesn't take that path is stupid, cowardly, floating, generally an unworthy idiot, and will never make it to the end. Hmmm.
Adam sort of summed up the myoptic vision Dani was putting forth...
He says "So instead she wants us all to spend our summer writing a check for her instead of J/J?"
I am hoping either P or K wins POV, they are my two favorites. I know I am one of the few who does not want a veteran to win and who still does not like Rachel and I do not want Jordan to win again.
I have felt this season was too slant for the veterans as not only did they came back to the game with experience but came back as solid couples. I feel that is hugely unfair to the newbies who were strangers and naturally would defect. I also think there was a lot of celeb worship of Jeff and Jordan and they feared Rachel too all season because she was so good at comps her season too.
Where Adam is concerned, I've often wondered if he's simply playing 'dummy-up' for comps, so that he would be trusted as a loser.
At this point, it hasn't been all that necessary for him to DO anything to stay in the game.
The muttering quips (like the one about Dani's remark re checks to J&J) show he's nobody's fool. He's not brave enough to stick his neck out, but I really think that's been part of his 'big' plan. Lay low.
And now they all could be depending on Adam for his vote to stay in the game!
Genius? Not. But it has gotten him into pretty good positioning.
I'm not sure I would come here near as often if it weren't for the debates that take place in the comments. Joe, Petals, and many others almost always have something intelligent and worthwhile to say and those regular commenters make it interesting. I like that most of the anon's are not usually trolls but the ones that scream "this game is rigged" have really started getting on my nerves.
As for the game I could easily see Adam flipping back over to the newbie side if he wins POV but I can also see him sticking with J/R. It will all depend on where he feels most safe. That is, of course, only an option if he somehow manages to win the veto competition. And if history is any indication his chances are slim to none, crazier things have happened though. I mean, who expected ED to be the first person gone from the house and not by eviction?
Since a basic goal of Big Brother is to avoid getting evicted each week, I’m beginning to think that however a player achieves that goal should be considered good game play. We may prefer those players who win competitions and make big moves, but I’m not sure any one method is really that superior to the others, as long as it keeps you in the game.
For instance, Adam hasn’t won any competitions or made big moves, so he’s considered a mere floater who just follows the power. But Adam IS playing the game: He makes sure people are aware that he hasn’t won completions, so he’s avoided being viewed as a threat or becoming a target. Adam talks with everyone and is aware of alliances and plans. He thinks strategically and shares information judiciously. He makes good use of being noncommittal at times, so he doesn‘t make commitments he won‘t keep and hasn‘t betrayed anyone. And he’s nice to everyone and fun to be around.
Adam likely will make Final 4, while several “strong” players are already in the jury house without a shot at the money. Who’s really playing the better game?
All though Dani is not a big fan of Rachel, she did say on Thursday that as much as the bitter girl in her hoped that Jeff was the next jury member, the game player in her hoped it was Adam since he is the epitome of a floater. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm ..... Adam vs Rachel in the F2, who does Dani vote for???
IF Adam does win POV, Porsche and Kalia will have a few days to 'work on him.'
Wonder if he'll be strong enough to stick with his word, or if Porsche will be able to get into his head. I can't tell if he's quite as influenced by Porsche as he seemed to be before.
Previously, Adam would avoid giving real answers about what he would do. But this time, Adam has actually told Rachel & Jordan that he WILL leave the noms as they are now.
Happy Saturday ~ taking a sec during Federer's match to peruse the comments...wow.
All I have to add is this: for as much evil that I may spew about one HG or another, I equally rave about and express undying love for others. Heck, I'm nearly an Ozzy groupie, and I absolutely still have a girl-crush on Janelle.
I hope I never truly cross a line and "really" offend anyone here. I love this place. Jackie's room has, at times, been a safe harbor when my own life off the 'net is unbearable.
XOXOX (back to cheer for another LOVE of mine, Roger!!)
How's that match going, Petals? Went to the Styx concert last night and I've been running around singing, "Oh Mama, I'm in fear for my life from the long arm of the law" all day. Of course it didn't help when a friend texted me with, "The jig is up, the news is out, they finally found me". Ugh, but hey, I love me some Tommy Shaw. He's still HOT after all these years.
I think any more speculation on what Adam will actually do is pointless until the POV is over. I don't think he would intentionally throw the veto if it looks like he may be going up, but if Rachel or Jordan are in front, I do believe he will throw it to one of them.
Regarding the Rachel transformation: it is remarkable, and one thing we have to keep in mind is the role that Jordan played in it. Think about it, it seems that Jordan has tamed the wild beast, her gentle kind demeanor has actually turned Rachel into a decent human being.
I say Jordan should win solely on that accomplishment alone! :)
Adam might truly think he has his best shot with R&J. He can say that Jordan already won, and he knows how few people like Rachel, and he can claim that his laying low AND keeping his integrity was good clean game play and that he deserves to win. I can totally see him playing the honorable card.
I would like to take a moment to say to all those who said it was impossible for Adam to win POV: WHO'S YOUR DADDY?!?!?!?
:) LOL
Now it gets interesting. You know Porsche will make the pitch. And I think Adam is bright enough to know that he now has all the power. The question is: does he want Kalia or Jordan to go home? We'll soon find out which side he's on! Gives us a little thrill this week...
P.S. I kind of want him to send Jordan home just so I can have bragging rights again!
LMAO! My wv is "clocky"...guess I better bite my tongue and not get clocky
Honestly, Adam isn't in a good position either way when it comes to jury votes. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. I don't see any scenario that he could possibly win (to date). It might be different if he pulls out the late wins like Jordan did in the final HoH, and that would be his only hope. JMO
If Adam wants Kalia home, I suspect part of it is because he's being typically male... his ears hurt from listening to all her constant yammering about nothing! LMAO
Monty, I kind of agree with you although suppose it is Adam vs. Porsche?
Porsche floated a lot, won 2 in a row. Adam floated a lot and won 1. If Adam wins another one, he could get all the vet votes. In a newbie only final 2, the vets dominate the jury even without Dani. Adam was Jeff's buddy. The problem is that in order for Adam to make that happen he needs to backdoor Jordan which could hurt him with Jeff/Jordan.
Kalia also only has 2 wins. If Adamm wins another he can claim (true or not) to have been throwing comps early as strategy. Don't know if it would work or not.
Adam vs Rachel or Adam vs Jordan is tough.
In either pairing you figure: Jeff/Brendon/evicted Jorchel - vote for Rachel or Jordan
Rachel or Jordan only need one more vote from Kalia, Porsche, Dani and Shelly.
I would think if it's Jordan, she easily picks up one vote (probably Shelly) and quite possibly Dani as well since her disdain for Adam is apparent.
If it is Rachel, it is rather hard to imagine any of the mean girls voting for her.
I still think Adam's best shot is probably against Rachel. But if the vets vote game play (which they always say they will) would they reward Adam for backdooring Jordan or bury him for it?
Tough choice either way. Glad I don't actually have to make the decision myself. I'm just doing the math.
If it's me, I think I backdoor Jordan for the following reason:
1. Rachel can't play HOH so she would have to win POV to stay in the game next week. 2. It would actually be a decisive move that might win me some votes for people who think I'm incapable of it. 3. It would put him solidly in the newbie camp and how scared is he of Porsche and Kalia. 4. I definitely can't beat Jordan in a jury vote. 5. Porsche will love me and she might prefer me to Kalia in F2
FROM MORTY'S : Kalia says it's a big decision and Adam says he still has time to think about it. (Adam physically looks upset that he won and is now in this position.)
***********************************
lol, does that mean Adam doesn't want to stick his neck out??? Hmmmmmmmmm
Porsche wore the HOH key around her head, so Adam gloating a bit doesn't bother me.
Can't hardly blame Adam for being extra happy, but I'm not sure he realizes how much power he has right now. But I'm sure Porsche AND Kalia will be more than happy to 'splain it to him! LOL
Their 'splaining probably won't change much because I think he really wants Kalia out. He's been walking away and leaving the room when she starts talking too much... which is most of the time.
Then a little while ago, Kalia cornered Adam and developed a real "case of the stupids" and tried to tell him that she told Porsche to 'let Adam win." DUMB KALIA, VERY DUMB. He did NOT appreciate that little 'offering' and she had to back off real quick!
anon 5:59 Actually, you're completely wrong. I never said it would happen. I suggested it was a good move for Adam. The only thing I'm gloating about so far is that no one bothered to argue whether or not it was good strategy because they all said it was impossible for Adam to win POV.
I'M YOUR DADDY, ANON! C'mon say it. I'M YOUR DADDY!!!
Monty ~ Paradise Theater is in my car cd player... "...too much time on my hands...too much time on my hands..."
Yup, my Joe is a hotty-p'totty, even if he is a bit pleonastic at times, but hey, that's his job. You could say that I'm hot for teacher. (it's true!) *wink*
Federer won, so I've been tap-dancing all afternoon. But as awesome as he is, he never gets too ... clocky.
Joe can be repetitive, mainly because people obviously didn't read or read but didn't consider his earlier comment on the same topic. I find no pleonasm in his construction. Perhaps you meant pedantic (in a good way, of course)?
LOL. I plead guilty to pleonasm. I'm also prone to comma splices although I've been concentrating on eliminating those...hmmm, which may be increasing the pleonasm.
80 comments:
Yay! I'll be happy if either one goes. Rooting for a Rachel/Jordan final 2.
Jackie, thanks for keeping us up-to-date. It is so much appreciated by all of us.
Shocker!!! @@
Keep in mind, you need Adam to NOT win POV. If he won, seems like he might pull Porsche off which would get Jordan booted. I know y'all don't think he can win anything. But these comps are often pretty random and pretty diverse on skill sets. Maybe he's really good at morphed pictures...
If you want Jordan to stay, you need anyone but Adam to win POV
Petals, dear, from the other thread. Pandora's box with Jessie and Tori can hardly be viewed as game changing.
As for U.S. Code Section 47 Chapter 5 Subchapter V, you really need to read up. We had this discussion before. (BTW, Jackie knew someone in production and Jackie believes Section 47 Chapter 5 applies to BB)
In a nutshell:
Anything with prize money potentially falls under the "Quiz Show rules".
It has never been tested on reality shows like Survivor (there was a court case season 1 but settled out of court) TAR and BB that have prizes at the end could well fall under it. It is a somewhat open question and one that no one at CBS wants answered, I'm sure.
My argument against "the fix" is partly the "Quiz Show rules" and partly the credibility issue. If y'all found out that the first 11 seasons of BB were scripted, how many of you would tune out for Season 12? They can't afford to lose credibility.
That said, I've always maintained that they are somewhat manipulative within the game. And definitely of the viewers. The edits are done to make us feel certain ways. DR sessions are manipulated by the questions asked that you never see. For example how many dumb things might Jeff have said in DR that hit the cutting room floor? You'll never know. How many questions did they ask Jordan before they got the one cute clip they show us?
The feeds make it harder to manipulate BB as completely as they can TAR and Survivor where we end up seeing 15 hours out of a couple thousand hours of film. But in all cases, I am personally quite sure that they stay short of any obvious manipulation of evictions and results because that would ruin their credibility and (potentially) run them afoul of the law.
Can you imagine the uproar from US if an old HG came forward and simply said that the DR told them to evict Jane Doe?
We also have to remember that if Adam doesn't at least TRY to win POV, he stands a chance of being nominated. If Porche or Kalia win they'll surely pull themself off the block, in which case Adam goes up. The vote would probably be a tie and he would have to trust that Rachel would save him in the tie breaker. While I don't think he can win against any if the ladies (except maybe Jordan), it's his only true chance at safety.
ORK Totally agree. Of course Adam really could have used HOH last night and Rachel beat him into dust. It really comes down to what the comp is and who is any good at it. Adam has been in a few quiz comps and he won the one POV (with help from Jeff throwing it). I hope Jordan also recognizes how important the POV is...not that it seems to matter since she will not suffer pain to win! LOL
I still think that if Jordan makes it to the F2 it is because Rachel carries her there.
I would rather watch my cat hack up a hairball than watch this "Reality" show. If anything, CBS shows it's didain for the viewers by rehashing old personalities and relationships. This season has been manipulated in every way by AG and the team.
whew...now I can go to sleep....wanted to make sure of the nominations....
Anon:10:32 - so don't watch. Or do your parents make you watch as a punishment for being a troll.
@Becky LMAO
Joe - Adam has flipped once again. He's now with Rachel and Jordan. Supposedly the three of them NEED to win the veto -- well, one of the three. And, if one of the three win it, the noms will remain the same. Adam told Rachel and Jordan that if either Porsche or Kalia win and one comes off the block, he'll understand if he has to go up as a replacement.
Since Adam waffles a lot, but I haven't seen him commit without following through, I guess (for now) he's with them.
Jackie, that's interesting. Based on what you were saying about his conversations with Porsche it seemed like he was still on the newbie bandwagon as late as today????
If I'm Jordan, I'm not sure I can take that chance. Adam hates Rachel and why does he want to sit next to Jordan at the end. Maybe he thinks he needs Kalia gone also and this is an opportunity.
He's hard to figure.
LOL Joe. Geeminy baby, I meant that production manipulation isnt "fixing". I just hate the manipulation.
Quiz Show law or not, I believe there is alot of manipulation and I just dont really like it. I miss the gritty realism of the older seasons of BB, Survivor, Real World, etc. Reality TV these days is anything BUT reality.
PS - you know how cute you look when you lecture? hehe
Honestly, I know everyone hated Shelly. But isn't Adam about the least trustworthy person to have been in that house this year? He is a classic floater. He was mostly in Jeff's pocket but even early on he floated to the power. But in the last couple weeks he went from being clearly in the vets camp to clearly in the newbie camp to clearly in the vets camp?!?!?!? Why would either group trust him at this point?
^5 Becky, LOL
Adam is a Joisey boy and fan of the show, so I'd like to see him in F2, but not sure if that is possible.
I doubt Jordan will win, though I am still rooting for her.
And that said, if you were Adam and you win POV wouldn't you use it to oust Jordan? Rachel can't play HOH next week. With Jordan gone the newbies definitely have HOH and it's just a matter of also winning POV and Rachel's gone.
I don't know that he'd do it. It's probably too big a move for the little guy to make. But if he were ever going to play the game isn't that the move to make? He ends up (by accident) in a 3 on 1 against Rachel. Rachel has no choice but to win out. (Course she might have to win out anyway given the little help she's getting from Jordan lately.) And even if Rachel wins out, she might well think floater Adam is the best bet for F2.
If Adam wins POV and doesn't use it, he's nominally in an alliance with Rachel and Jordan against Porsche?!?!? But how does he make the F2 in that group? Float back to Porsche? Could work. But if Adam doesn't save Porsche what does she owe him?
I don't know, seems like almost a 50/50 on his using it. I think the stronger play is to take out Jordan because she is the one remaining HG likely to win with the jury in the F2, especially if Rachel ends up on the jury also. And then Adam has numbers. The other way the best he can hope for is a 2 on 2 with Porsche and that seems a messier path to me.
gww, quel suprize
that was supposed to say GEE!
Orkmommy- good one!
Adam never swears to do something and then does the exact opposite. In a lot of ways, he's a nice Dr Will. You don't know what he'll do but he is clear he is unreliable. Both sides need his vote and try to keep his vote. They never say "hey, Adam was with us, I can't believe he's not now." It's like the American voter, until he goes in and votes, he can change his mind. Is a candidate going to write a voter off?
The challenge with Adam isn't "can we trust him?" It's always "are we strong enough now to get him to vote with us?" The second question may be far easier to judge and manage then the first would be -- at least in the house. For those of us out here, it is often easier to judge the first but not in the house.
Remember, Will won the first time he played but came in fourth the second time.
I also think that the move to oust Jordan may not have the same "wow" factor that the other big moves have had. Danielle may respect it but I am not sure anyone else does. At this point, Adam may well win because he has flown under the radar much longer than expected.
OR -- he could be Enzo.
Can we stop hypothetically saying that Adam will win the veto. He hasn't won ANYTHING so far and wont start now.
The veto comp is between Rachel and Porshe.
~~~
P.S. I also don't think that people should be chastised for their opinions, even if they are not in line with Joe's or Jackie. I add ~~~ to distinguish myself from other anons because they can be actually be trollish sometimes, but some of the statements that other anons have posted, I don't think deserve the responses they've been getting while other non-anon members (i.e. Petals) with similar opinions are not eaten up as much. I sometimes agree with the anons' opinions (like show manipulation which Dick and other people who know producers and have been on the show have attested to).
I just think everyone's opinions should be respected despite whether or not they feel comfortable attaching a name to it.
joe is right,
adam could completely flip back to p/k with the veto.
jordan and rachel know that.
so at this point they have to hope anyone but adam wins the veto or jordan could go up and out and rachel cannot play for hoh so....
she (rachel) would have to win the next veto (which she pretty much needs to do anyway) I am rooting for rachel all the way. it would be ashame to see adam jordan in final two with all the hard work rachel has done.
still i think they made the right decision getting shelly out, she was awful to them when "her" side was winning and I for one am glad I don't have to read her lies anymore.
When it comes to anons, there is a percentage to use the anonymity to troll. Yet here, we do have what seems to be a good bunch posting under anonymous. I would appreciate it if the regularly commenting anonymous people would sign off with some sort of name (or characters) as a few already do. That would help a lot in discussions!
Dear ~~~
If you think people go out of their way to agree with me, you haven't been in Jackie's house long enough. LOL
I respect everyone's opinion including dissenters. There is an anon (I assume the same one) who seems to come in every now and then and just throw out semi-inflammatory ideas repeatedly. That's the only person whom I have referred to as a troll. I could be wrong. Maybe this person really needs to say "Jordan is a floater" 8 times a day to annoy the Jordan lovers on her (I'm not one). And I'm not sure what "I'd rather hack up a hairball than watch..." accomplishes.
Again, I could be wrong, and if I am I'm sorry for referring to said person as a troll. It just seems that individual is less interested in discussing the show and more interested in trying to tweak the rest of us.
I've made my case against gross manipulation of result (Section 47 Chapter 5 Subchapter V LOL) and many people here disagree. I've never called them ignorant for thinking so or called them names. One anon has said things like "anyone with half a brain can tell its manipulated". Again, that strikes me as a little "trollish" but it could just be the way that person expresses themself.
I've personally been on the short end of the J/J stick on this board forever. Only lately has there seemed to be a few people that have agreed that maybe Jeff can be a jerk. But despite the fact that we've had this big disagreement on J/J for a couple years, I don't feel like people are hating on me for the disagreement and I hope the J/J lovers don't feel that I'm hating on THEM. (J/J are a different story. ;)
Maybe I should drop the "troll" from the discussion. I guess I can't really know if that anon really is just trolling or not. It makes no difference. At various times I've tried simply ignoring them completely, discussing with them and (I admit it) a little name calling when frustrated. For that I have previously retracted and apologized.
I like Jordan as a person. I have very little respect for Jordan as a BB player. But it still irks me (don't know why) when that anon just drops bombs on Jordan for no apparent reason. It just seems intended to inflame without intending to discuss.
If I'm wrong about that anon, I apologize. I will endeavor to simply avoid anything I think is strictly inflammatory in the future.
@~~~
I should also point out that Petals has taken some heat and even been chastised by Jackie (or others) when she goes over the top. The difference between ORK or Witt or Petals saying something is that they do have a history here. As much as they can totally be making up a fake name (Petals is not her real name! :), they always use that name and so they end up owning their comments good and bad. If ORK says "I'm fed up and can't watch this season anymore" it is going to be viewed VERY differently than an anon showing up and saying "This show sucks, how can you people not now it's fake"
No one has jumped on you, ~~~, (I kind of love that symbolic name!) or Sharon or Lilli is because y'all sign your anons and so you end up owning all of your comments and so we know that even if you are incensed or inflammatory it is only part of your story here. An anonymous anon doesn't build up good karma in the same way. I mean maybe the anon I've called the T-word really has posted dozens of posts with friendly banter that have a totally different tone. But he/she won't get credit for those in my mind because they will seem to have come from a different person because of the difference in tone. With no name (or symbol!), all I'm going by is tone.
And it is always a bit suspicious when someone shows up on any board dedicated to a single thing and just trashes that single thing. If this show is unwatchable and you hate it, why would you go to a blog dedicated to it just to express that it is unwatchable and you hate it. All it does is implicitly insult the rest of us who really ought to get a life and be less vested in what happens in that house!!! LOL
Adam tries so hard to not only lose the comps, but to make a big display that he lost and is dissappointed in himself. BB could make a final show collage of his stomping,slapping, etc antics after he (once again) dropped a comp. When he does that, he is showing the hgs that he is not a threat. They can ignore goofy ole Adam, in other words. But it looks like a play to me. Contrived in a way. If Adam made it to the end and gave the jury a speech that said how hard he worked to pretend to float, to come through it with no (or only Por) alliance and have no one the wiser, then he might make a good point with them. Especially if he pulls out some big move in the next few days. I am not saying I think Adam has a master plan in BB house, I am saying that it could be possible for a player to do that and asking if he can actually be as worthless at challenges as he appears? Belle
Now, back to you our regularly scheduled speculation:
I really would love to be able to grant each HG, in turn, the power to right now pick their Final 2 mate. Just to see who they would really take if they had to make the call now.
I mean it seems like Rachel takes Jordan and Jordan takes Rachel. It also seems like Kalia takes Porsche and Porsche takes Kalia. Adam takes...????
But if actually forced to choose from the current HGs, would they go that route? I mean Kalia might want to take Porsche as an intellectual exercise right now because she's not making the $1/2 million decision and they are allies. But if she's going to make the $1/2 million call does she really want Porsche next to her with the jury. I mean if I'm Kalia I stick with Porsche for as long as I need her, but in the back of my mind don't I want Rachel or Adam next to me? Adam because you can argue he did nothing but Rachel because you think (we'll find out) that the newbie/vet split on the jury favors you. I mean if Kalia and Rachel are the final 2, the jury is:
Brendon/Jeff/Jordan - probably Rachel votes although Kalia feels a bond with Jordan also
Dani/Shelly/Porsche - all huge haters of Rachel
Adam - a strong disliker of Rachel
Same argument for Porsche.
I'd just love to know what they'd do if they had to.
I almost think Adam might prefer to be opposite Rachel at the end for the same reason.
Jordan I really think would be true to Rachel because she doesn't seem prone to "gameplay". And I kind of think Rachel would lean toward Jordan although if Rachel is really thinking ahead she needs Jordan on the jury unbetrayed by Rachel to give her a solid group of vet votes and she probably really needs Adam to be opposite her. There was so little respect for Adam as a player, Rachel might actually get 5 or 6 votes opposite him.
The later in the game it gets, the more the "who do you want to sit next to?" SHOULD matter. (These hgs don't seem the best strategists to ever sit in the house)
Just something I've been thinking about.
Also, someone mentioned that Will won the first time but finished 4th the 2nd time in All-Stars. That is true, but frankly still a testament to how great a player he was. Look what happened to Russell on Survivor when he went back in. He wasn't even doing much that was naughty but they still threw a comp to get rid of him.
In All-Stars everyone KNEW Will was the biggest liar on the planet but starting the 1st or 2nd week Will volunteered to go up on the block. And then he talked the house into keeping him. And he ended up with his entire alliance in the final 4. Only an angry Janelle managed to take him out at 4. Boogie or Erica wouldn't have.
In a lot of ways, I think his performance on All-Stars was more masterful than the original. And remember I don't like Dr. Will! LOL I respect him as maybe the best player ever. But I always found him insufferably egotistical and even a little creepy. But when everyone wanted him out and everyone knew he was a big liar who only wanted to win for himself and he volunteered to go on the block...I had to give him his profs.
Belle, you could be right. But that jury seems so convinced of Adam's worthlessness that I doubt they would believe him. If he actually managed to win the Final HOH then maybe he could make that case and have some people think it might actually be true. Sad to say, he also doesn't look the part.
Part of Dr. Will's strategy was to always throw comps. But he was this tall, thin young man with the pretty face and so people believed he was throwing comps as part of his strategy. Sad to say if Dr. Will were short, heavy, old and homely they probably wouldn't. And speaking for the tall, heavy, old and homely I also don't think his lying would have been as effective. You can hate that its true, but appearance counts for a lot.
Joe, I agree with your opinion of Dr. Will. I am fuzzy on that All Star season, but think I thought at the time that Dr. Will decided who he would let win, so even while leaving, he was the one who controlled the house. Wasn't it a gift to his buddy? Belle
If there is any manipulation at all, it takes place in the diary room. Seeds can be planted with a few words, seeds of distrust, ideas, plans. "What if" questions. Not that I think that's happening - I hope that the diary room disembodied voice asks only what the particular hamster thinks and feels without external direction. (But notice that whenever a hamster brings up a diary room session, the feeds get cut and the hamster is reprimanded, so we don't really know.)
I think it would be interesting if a show DID have blatant manipulation in the diary room. And show it. Like a voiceover to us says, "Bob trusts Suzie implicitly. We are going to attempt to destroy that trust." And then they hint to Bob that Suzie blah blah, and we watch to see what the effects of that are. That's like real life! We are manipulated by the media and by our gossipy friends every day. So the show becomes *about* manipulation.
Of course BB can't do it. Once done, they could never go back. But if they ever decide a season is the last, that would be a great final show.
~~Silk, I agree that would make for an interesting show. I also think it would be allowed under any game show law (if that law is ever defined). How to make it to the end while facing a gaunlet of troubles is the goal of winning BB, and those troubles, imo, can be anything and everything the producers throw at a contestant, including telling them things that could ruin their game. I remember a few years ago some show (Jerry Springer?) revealed what went on in production. The producers role was to get the guests as angry as possible with the other guests just before the two met on stage. By that time, the guests were ready to fight each other. It was all part of the show. I think that translates into many different productions. It also, as Joe mentioned with Wrestling, lets the fan decide to believe what they see or believe what they might not know happens in production. In BB, there are many who choose to believe the hgs. Belle
With so many Anon issues I figured out how to put my name at the top from hence forth.
With all of Adam's comments to feeders last Wed he seemed to be telling us at this point he was sticking with R/J all the way so I think even if he wins veto R/J are in F4.
Adam did quite well in the Toga/Ball Back & Forth comp, and even if Jeff hadn't thrown the Corn Hole Adam probably would have made a respectable 2nd place. Just saying, he could win a POV against all women.
Joe in NY proposed a BB Mt Rushmore idea awhile back. Just want to offer my pick for one of the spots...
Rachel if she makes F2 this season. Think about it. Last year she was reviled and ridiculed in and out of the house and was first to jury.
So this season she comes in with a bad reputation, her controlling nut job fiance, a I am a constant victim of people who hate competitors mindset, and two goals...win BB, AND redeem all of the negative attitudes people have about her.
An impossible task right?
Brendon was booted and Rachel unfurls her wings and begins to fly...she is now F4 and if Adam stays loyal and J/R or A win next weeks POV she is F3 and at that point virtually guaranteed F2!
So, she is days away from a very possible BB win. At F2 she could easily argue that J is wonderful but already got the money last year and has only won a single comp this year. Rachel has won tons of comps already with more to follow to make F2. And she did it with all the odds and most of the HGs against her.
A lot of jury members claim they will vote for best game play not favorite person on which Rachel hands down surpasses Jordan.
Harder than winning BB tho is changing hearts and minds. Well if this board is at all representative Mission Accomplished!
A tiny few of us have been Rachel supporters all along. But in the last couple of weeks support, even admiration, for her has been growing and growing and growing. She has finally gotten a large measure of the redemption she sought and I believe if she and Jordan can boot Kalia and Porche they will make F2 and Rachel will absolutely get at least four Jury votes and win BB13!
Dr Will move over we are carving Rachel's head right next to yours...
Continued from earlier post above
The comps aren't rigged in either show, Survivor with the comps being bigger and more elaborate are much harder to stage and play out to a single player, BB on the other hand has multiple comps that can be set-up and played fairly quickly, therefore they can pull and set-up a comp that suits a certain player type over another much more easily - so in essence they can "rig it" for a certain player's strengths.
As you can see some shows can be more easily manipulated by production for certain outcomes than others (not that they can or do just that it's easier for them to do so). You know you all of a sudden see a contestant going around counting things or going around looking around at things then the next comp is a "how many" or Q/A on things in the house makes you wonder how they just "knew" to start doing that.
Just my two cents worth on my own observations....
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Dang the first half of my post didn't make it up....Just the second half??? well at least it makes sense cause I can't remember what all I typed... lol
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Ok found the first part... LOL
I post occasionally as Anon, only because yes it's a "game show" (after all they are playing for prizes during segments and striving for the big prize at the end). Yes winning HOH could be considered "winning a prize" as you get things the others don't (letter from home, goodie tray, special accommodations, etc...). The POV gets a "special power" of sorts in that they have the opportunity to throw a monkey wrench in another person's game play. Have/Have Not comps you win "good food" while the loser's end up on slop, which will ruin some people's game play, not to mention weakening them physically. So all in all it can be looked upon as a game show (a long drawn out game show). Bringing in prior "guests" can be useful (the newbies can gain some valuable info on how BB works from them) but bring in to many (esp strong ones like these last six) and you take the chance that they totally dominate the house (which I'm sure they would have if Evil Dick hadn't stepped out week one).
I prefer that the game be played with all newbies for the most part with the occasional game that has veterans, not this every season they bring folks back. It's almost like there's no one good to choose from so we'll bring these guys back so it'll be more interesting and we'll have some ratings... Which is true to a degree, but the die-hard fans are going to watch the show regardless. A show like Survivor who brought Russell back three times - well that was brilliant as he was a very disliked person and basically ran the show the first two times (and should have won both times due to his game play but they voted how they felt not on game play) only on the third time when people knew who he was and how he played did they throw the comp to get rid of him (again brilliant) but that just shows that a player that polarizes the audience in a good or bad way will always be a "bring-em back" person in the eye's of production as a way to keep ratings up.
Production on BB can play around with the comps and change them up to suit there needs or wants, they have several to choose from at any given time, not like Survivor where they are mostly very elaborate builds that can take a week to set up. Survivor has all the comps for the season pre-staged, built, and tested usually before the contestants arrive. Survivor I think is the only game where I think production doesn't really care who wins (I think others don't really care either, but some of their comps seem skewed towards one person or the other - case in point putting Pandora's box that has $10,000 in it out for a girl that's a "VIP Hostess at a club" which tells me she is a money grubber (Most VIP waitress/hostess types are pretty girls that get the guys liquored up to "rent" VIP rooms that have overly priced items in it, the more the "VIP" spends in there the bigger her cut is). That Pandora's box had her name all over it...And releasing the "duo twist" back on the house only helped the veterans, which helped production keep the ratings up... There's nothing new here, production will cut and paste things to show someone in either a good or bad light as they see the need in order to keep things interesting and keep people watching.
Continued below
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We all have pet peeves regarding HGs. Hypocrisy, meanness, etc.
Here's a big one for me...Dani did it a lot so I will use her as the example but they all do it:
Dani tried 1000 times to get Adam to vote to keep her. He refused because he knew he couldn't trust or beat her in comps, that it wasn't good for him if she stayed.
Dani ranted about how stupid Adam is, how he can't see that voting for Dani is the sole way for him to move forward, he will be out next, he is too afraid to play the game, he is in love with J/J, that Dani is the sole player, risk taker, big thinker, BB lover ever to play the game everyone else is a moron that is here to write J/J a check.
People in and out of the house constantly put forth their best way forward ideas. And then immediately state that anyone who doesn't take that path is stupid, cowardly, floating, generally an unworthy idiot, and will never make it to the end. Hmmm.
Adam sort of summed up the myoptic vision Dani was putting forth...
He says "So instead she wants us all to spend our summer writing a check for her instead of J/J?"
I am hoping either P or K wins POV, they are my two favorites. I know I am one of the few who does not want a veteran to win and who still does not like Rachel and I do not want Jordan to win again.
I have felt this season was too slant for the veterans as not only did they came back to the game with experience but came back as solid couples. I feel that is hugely unfair to the newbies who were strangers and naturally would defect. I also think there was a lot of celeb worship of Jeff and Jordan and they feared Rachel too all season because she was so good at comps her season too.
Where Adam is concerned, I've often wondered if he's simply playing 'dummy-up' for comps, so that he would be trusted as a loser.
At this point, it hasn't been all that necessary for him to DO anything to stay in the game.
The muttering quips (like the one about Dani's remark re checks to J&J) show he's nobody's fool. He's not brave enough to stick his neck out, but I really think that's been part of his 'big' plan. Lay low.
And now they all could be depending on Adam for his vote to stay in the game!
Genius? Not. But it has gotten him into pretty good positioning.
Sharon
I'm not sure I would come here near as often if it weren't for the debates that take place in the comments. Joe, Petals, and many others almost always have something intelligent and worthwhile to say and those regular commenters make it interesting. I like that most of the anon's are not usually trolls but the ones that scream "this game is rigged" have really started getting on my nerves.
As for the game I could easily see Adam flipping back over to the newbie side if he wins POV but I can also see him sticking with J/R. It will all depend on where he feels most safe. That is, of course, only an option if he somehow manages to win the veto competition. And if history is any indication his chances are slim to none, crazier things have happened though. I mean, who expected ED to be the first person gone from the house and not by eviction?
Since a basic goal of Big Brother is to avoid getting evicted each week, I’m beginning to think that however a player achieves that goal should be considered good game play. We may prefer those players who win competitions and make big moves, but I’m not sure any one method is really that superior to the others, as long as it keeps you in the game.
For instance, Adam hasn’t won any competitions or made big moves, so he’s considered a mere floater who just follows the power. But Adam IS playing the game: He makes sure people are aware that he hasn’t won completions, so he’s avoided being viewed as a threat or becoming a target. Adam talks with everyone and is aware of alliances and plans. He thinks strategically and shares information judiciously. He makes good use of being noncommittal at times, so he doesn‘t make commitments he won‘t keep and hasn‘t betrayed anyone. And he’s nice to everyone and fun to be around.
Adam likely will make Final 4, while several “strong” players are already in the jury house without a shot at the money. Who’s really playing the better game?
All though Dani is not a big fan of Rachel, she did say on Thursday that as much as the bitter girl in her hoped that Jeff was the next jury member, the game player in her hoped it was Adam since he is the epitome of a floater. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm ..... Adam vs Rachel in the F2, who does Dani vote for???
IF Adam does win POV, Porsche and Kalia will have a few days to 'work on him.'
Wonder if he'll be strong enough to stick with his word, or if Porsche will be able to get into his head. I can't tell if he's quite as influenced by Porsche as he seemed to be before.
Previously, Adam would avoid giving real answers about what he would do. But this time, Adam has actually told Rachel & Jordan that he WILL leave the noms as they are now.
Has he decided it's time for him to lie?
Adam really is a question mark!
Sharon
Happy Saturday ~ taking a sec during Federer's match to peruse the comments...wow.
All I have to add is this: for as much evil that I may spew about one HG or another, I equally rave about and express undying love for others. Heck, I'm nearly an Ozzy groupie, and I absolutely still have a girl-crush on Janelle.
I hope I never truly cross a line and "really" offend anyone here. I love this place. Jackie's room has, at times, been a safe harbor when my own life off the 'net is unbearable.
XOXOX (back to cheer for another LOVE of mine, Roger!!)
PS - {{{Joe}}}
How's that match going, Petals? Went to the Styx concert last night and I've been running around singing, "Oh Mama, I'm in fear for my life from the long arm of the law" all day. Of course it didn't help when a friend texted me with, "The jig is up, the news is out, they finally found me". Ugh, but hey, I love me some Tommy Shaw. He's still HOT after all these years.
I think any more speculation on what Adam will actually do is pointless until the POV is over. I don't think he would intentionally throw the veto if it looks like he may be going up, but if Rachel or Jordan are in front, I do believe he will throw it to one of them.
Back to my singing.......
Regarding the Rachel transformation: it is remarkable, and one thing we have to keep in mind is the role that Jordan played in it. Think about it, it seems that Jordan has tamed the wild beast, her gentle kind demeanor has actually turned Rachel into a decent human being.
I say Jordan should win solely on that accomplishment alone! :)
Nicely said, Petals. Belle
Veto comp just ended. Kalia nor Adam won. Not sure who won exactly. But looks like Jordan or Rachel based on the moods.
seems like an otev comp
Looks like Adam won POV!
Time for him to finally choose a side for real.
Ed
Adam won POV! Joe must be a prophet, LOL!
Ooops sorry. Looks like it could have actually been Adam who won. Not confirmed though
Adam might truly think he has his best shot with R&J. He can say that Jordan already won, and he knows how few people like Rachel, and he can claim that his laying low AND keeping his integrity was good clean game play and that he deserves to win. I can totally see him playing the honorable card.
Adam won veto?!?!
shocker (for real)
now he's being sooo cocky...ugh! If he thinks it's a good idea to take Jordan and Rachel...he's dumb.
~~~
I would like to take a moment to say to all those who said it was impossible for Adam to win POV: WHO'S YOUR DADDY?!?!?!?
:) LOL
Now it gets interesting. You know Porsche will make the pitch. And I think Adam is bright enough to know that he now has all the power. The question is: does he want Kalia or Jordan to go home? We'll soon find out which side he's on! Gives us a little thrill this week...
P.S. I kind of want him to send Jordan home just so I can have bragging rights again!
LMAO! My wv is "clocky"...guess I better bite my tongue and not get clocky
Honestly, Adam isn't in a good position either way when it comes to jury votes. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. I don't see any scenario that he could possibly win (to date). It might be different if he pulls out the late wins like Jordan did in the final HoH, and that would be his only hope. JMO
Kind of funny to see Kalia sucking up to ADAM and trying to explain why she voted to keep Shelly.
Shrugged it off.
Doesn't look like he'll be singing "I'm a believer." LMAO
Sharon
LMAO, Joe. Now I know why Petals has the hots for you, LOL!!!
I think Kalia knows she's a goner.
At this point it looks like Adam is planning to not use POV and send Kalia home.
Can't resist being a tad sexist...
If Adam wants Kalia home, I suspect part of it is because he's being typically male... his ears hurt from listening to all her constant yammering about nothing! LMAO
wv is phela
The phela has tired ears.
Sharon
@Joe. I definately doubted you.. haha.
Adam's thought may be: If I get rid of the newbs, the vets will respect me for it.
So I don't think he'll use it. He'll keep Jordan and Rachel and hope for votes from the others.
UGH it annoys me that he won. I really hope he doesn't get HOH, he'll be so...clocky
~~~
And Kalia has a post Veto comp snack
I think chewing helps Kalia think. Not trying to be mean, but I really do think she does it to calm down or to concentrate.
Monty, I kind of agree with you although suppose it is Adam vs. Porsche?
Porsche floated a lot, won 2 in a row. Adam floated a lot and won 1. If Adam wins another one, he could get all the vet votes. In a newbie only final 2, the vets dominate the jury even without Dani. Adam was Jeff's buddy. The problem is that in order for Adam to make that happen he needs to backdoor Jordan which could hurt him with Jeff/Jordan.
Kalia also only has 2 wins. If Adamm wins another he can claim (true or not) to have been throwing comps early as strategy. Don't know if it would work or not.
Adam vs Rachel or Adam vs Jordan is tough.
In either pairing you figure:
Jeff/Brendon/evicted Jorchel - vote for Rachel or Jordan
Rachel or Jordan only need one more vote from Kalia, Porsche, Dani and Shelly.
I would think if it's Jordan, she easily picks up one vote (probably Shelly) and quite possibly Dani as well since her disdain for Adam is apparent.
If it is Rachel, it is rather hard to imagine any of the mean girls voting for her.
I still think Adam's best shot is probably against Rachel. But if the vets vote game play (which they always say they will) would they reward Adam for backdooring Jordan or bury him for it?
Tough choice either way. Glad I don't actually have to make the decision myself. I'm just doing the math.
If it's me, I think I backdoor Jordan for the following reason:
1. Rachel can't play HOH so she would have to win POV to stay in the game next week.
2. It would actually be a decisive move that might win me some votes for people who think I'm incapable of it.
3. It would put him solidly in the newbie camp and how scared is he of Porsche and Kalia.
4. I definitely can't beat Jordan in a jury vote.
5. Porsche will love me and she might prefer me to Kalia in F2
Cassi Colvin has landed a spot on CBS soap "The Bold & the Beautiful", taping September 15,
Ahh A Wonderful Date ( Sept 15
Birthdays )
Now this is hilarious, it's actually Rachel's recurring role.
FROM MORTY'S : Kalia says it's a big decision and Adam says he still has time to think about it. (Adam physically looks upset that he won and is now in this position.)
***********************************
lol, does that mean Adam doesn't want to stick his neck out??? Hmmmmmmmmm
See Ya' Kalia, bye..bye!
I still think Adam has a secret aliance with Porsche, but I'm still pulling for J/R!
Ed
JOE IN NY said: I would like to take a moment to say to all those who said it was impossible for Adam to win POV: WHO'S YOUR DADDY?!?!?!?
***********************************
Ahhh....but, so far, you're only half right. Looks like Adam is going to stick with J & R, at this point.
Which was so NOT your scenario. Let's all remember that fact as well.
@Joe,
That's really really smart about the backdooring Jordan because Rachel can't play thing. I hope he thinks of that.
I just REALLY hope he doesn't win. I don't want to watch another Dustin walking around.
~~~
and by win. I mean winning HOH. He will be so cocky.
adam won veto
is promising not to use it
and to vote out kahlia
here is hoping he sticks to that.
Porsche wore the HOH key around her head, so Adam gloating a bit doesn't bother me.
Can't hardly blame Adam for being extra happy, but I'm not sure he realizes how much power he has right now. But I'm sure Porsche AND Kalia will be more than happy to 'splain it to him! LOL
Their 'splaining probably won't change much because I think he really wants Kalia out. He's been walking away and leaving the room when she starts talking too much... which is most of the time.
Then a little while ago, Kalia cornered Adam and developed a real "case of the stupids" and tried to tell him that she told Porsche to 'let Adam win." DUMB KALIA, VERY DUMB. He did NOT appreciate that little 'offering' and she had to back off real quick!
Sharon
anon 5:59 Actually, you're completely wrong. I never said it would happen. I suggested it was a good move for Adam. The only thing I'm gloating about so far is that no one bothered to argue whether or not it was good strategy because they all said it was impossible for Adam to win POV.
I'M YOUR DADDY, ANON! C'mon say it. I'M YOUR DADDY!!!
Monty ~ Paradise Theater is in my car cd player... "...too much time on my hands...too much time on my hands..."
Yup, my Joe is a hotty-p'totty, even if he is a bit pleonastic at times, but hey, that's his job. You could say that I'm hot for teacher. (it's true!) *wink*
Federer won, so I've been tap-dancing all afternoon. But as awesome as he is, he never gets too ... clocky.
Joe can be repetitive, mainly because people obviously didn't read or read but didn't consider his earlier comment on the same topic. I find no pleonasm in his construction. Perhaps you meant pedantic (in a good way, of course)?
Oops. I found a few examples of pleonasm in Joe's comments in this post: "argue whether or not", "would work or not", and "friendly banter".
Heh. Some people are into food, or comics, or nature. I like words. Forgive me.
Silk - my Joe is never pedantic. i meant what I wrote. I might have used magniloquent, but Joe is never quite that flowery.
In any case, he's a puppy: cute, cuddly, almost potty-trained, LOL
LOL. I plead guilty to pleonasm. I'm also prone to comma splices although I've been concentrating on eliminating those...hmmm, which may be increasing the pleonasm.
Silk I plead guilty to "whether or not" and "would work or not" and I guess "friendly banter" although I've seen the construction "angry banter"...
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