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| Girl talk |
Here's the latest from inside that Big Brother House of Miserable Mice:
- I wonder how long Alex will wear her superhero host outfit. Or, for that matter, how long will Paul wear his suspenders from the comp more than a week ago? He wore that silly fur thing from a comp for a few weeks straight.
- It seems some of them latch onto any new item of clothing they get in a comp. I recall a few saying they have more sneakers than they own at home in real life.
- That said, at least Alex's superhero garb doesn't leave her chest hanging out!
- The big news of the day would be the nominations.
- As expected, Josh nominated Alex and Kevin.
- Now, the plan with this and Josh, Paul and Christmas is that Alex will be voted out. If Alex happens to win veto, then Kevin would be voted out despite who else is on the block.
- The eviction order would just shift to Kevin then Alex rather than its present Alex then Kevin.
- If Kevin wins veto .... BWAHAHAHA!
- Ahem.
- I'm sorry. I really enjoy the dude, more than any of the rest of them in the house when he's himself. However, I've lost faith that he could be some sort of comp beast just waiting for the moment.
- There is a slight glimmer of hope.
- I doubt it will come to fruition, though.
- Y'see, Josh had one of his long talks with the camera. While these nominations are indeed what Paul (and thus Christmas) want ... Josh seriously wants to make the move ... try to get Alex to win the veto, save herself, put Paul up in her place and blindside Paul.
- Paul out this week! And, out at the hands of Josh!
- Can you imagine it?
- Sorry, I can't. IF he gets the nerve to put Paul on the block (and that's a big IF), I think Alex and Christmas (the only two who can vote) won't go with his plan.
- They both trust Paul, foolish hamsters that they are.
- Alex doesn't like Kevin, not at all. She would vote him out.
- Christmas was once attached to Kevin at the hip. Paul is her more recent attachment figure.
- Josh thinks that if he saves Alex or, more preferably, she saves herself -- he just needs to tip her vote to Paul so it would be a tie. He'd be the tiebreaker and blindside Paul.
- True, it would be the power move of the game. And, it just might tip the scales in Josh's favor with the jury if he can get it done and makes it to the final two.
- Unless it happens, I don't think it's going to go down that way.
- I think both Christmas and Alex are too blinded by Paul to understand that would put the rest of them -- Josh, Alex, Christmas and even Kevin -- on more solid ground going into the finals.
- I guess we'll see.
- As for the nominations staying as they are -- Alex is in tears tonight. She thinks it will be a split vote and, because she doesn't get along well with Josh, he will vote her out.
- Not to be outdone, Josh also cried. He told Paul and Christmas that he feels horrible about Jason and Alex. He claims that he likes them the most after Paul and Christmas.
- Hmm.
- He also told Paul and Christmas that he wants to see Kevin go next.
- I remember when he and Kevin were a loving fun heterosexual couple!
- Can Josh really pull the big move off?
- We know, that if he does indeed do the deed, we can expect a lot of tears.
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| Paul is committing the house to memory |
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| Real men wash dishes |
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| Nap time! I could use a nap myself. |
74 comments:
Thx for all your updates. Again, like every year with BB, we're preparing for 2 more hurricanes so I'll miss the finall! But eventually when the electric comes back I know where to go the know who won!
Dolores in Hollywood, (Fl)
Thank you for the kind words and BE SAFE!
For the first time since I've had the feeds, I'm out until the finale. I can't watch Christmas and Paul anymore. They just keep getting uglier and uglier and Kevin's the only one I care about anymore in there. He's all alone and I just can't watch Alex, Christmas, Josh and Paul. I had hopes that Josh might make a move but that was my stupidity on the season. I guess they rubbed off on me.
Thanks Jackie. I'll be here for the show on Sunday and the remaining show nights. I'm done waching these fools on the feeds. So sad that this is what I'm left feeling at the end of this season. ugh
I'm with you on this, Monty. It's so disgusting. I hope Alex does not win the Veto.
I won't be here Sunday night. The Dayton Dragons made it to the second round of the playoffs. Beat the best team in the league. Always remember, just because someone is the best, doesn't mean they will play the hardest in the end. LOL. So proud of this team. We thought they were out Wednesday night after losing a hard fought battle. But they came back at 2 away games to a team whom they've lost to away every time they've played them. Woooohoooo!!!
Jackie, thank you so much for doing this for us. It is greatly appreciated.
monty924. I know what you mean, I am so tired of them rehashing everything, over and over!!! Josh thinks for himself for a few minutes then goes back to Paul and Christmas way of thinking. He actually had an lightbulb moment for about 2minutes then it went out! I have enjoyed watching Alex squirm.... I usually don't like watching that sort of thing, but she has been so hateful to Kevin, for no apparent reason, mostly jealousy. For some reason I feel like I have to keep watching the feeds to protect Kevin. Like I can do anything about it! ;)
Monty - Ditto. I haven't watched feeds in...weeks. I catch highlights, but haven't even watched a second since like Wednesday.
Is it in bad taste for me to mention how satisfying it is that (nearly) everyone now sees what I saw last season & all this one - that Paul is a monster? Game or not, he is not a good person (and neither is XXXmas or Alex, for that matter).
You're right, Jackie - we can HOPE that Josh makes a move, but *sigh*
And Dolores - YES! I hope you stay safe down there!
I think even if Josh does man up and make a move, it will be hard for him to carry it out. He seems to be all alone in his thinking, except for maybe Kevin, but he's on the block. Even if he gets Paul on the block Alex and Xmas will still vote out Kevin. The only shot he has at it working is for Kevin to come off the block. He wants to talk to Alex, but I'm afraid that will be a bad move because she will run straight to Paul. I don't know how they don't realize they will probably get 2nd place sitting next to Paul, unless the jury is really bitter.
I gave up weeks ago.
If Josh had a brain and veto the move would be to pull Kevin off with a deal he has to vote Paul out
Paul is no more of a monster than the others are fools for allowing him to run this game. He is playing the game -- they are playing his game like the idiots they are. While I've said all along that Paul was playing the best game in the house this season, I've also said that the others should have known to get him out long ago. It's not a love/hate thing, not a Paul "fan" thing. It's observation. He's been the only one playing most of the season. In watching the live feeds, he has a way to talk to people one on one and making them think he's their best friend and confidant. Perhaps after his fifteen minutes of fame, he should think of being a force for good and become a homicide interrogator or something. ;-)
Homicide interrogator, love it. Maybe he could work for the government infiltrating terrorist cells or something. He definitely has a way with mind control.
I don't think they realize how well Paul can actually compete when he wants to either. Josh keeps saying it's too soon, but once they get rid of Alex, Paul will come on stronger than ever. Xmas can't compete and unless Kevin is just waiting for the right moment to strike, it's basically going to be Josh against Paul and I don't think Josh will beat him in competitions.
"Perhaps after his fifteen minutes of fame, he should think of being a force for good and become a homicide interrogator or something. ;-)"
Oh Jackie, what a perfect thought!
But then, the criminals would have to be those kinds of easily led idiots too.
There's no doubt that Paul is very intelligent and can think 'on his feet' very quickly. It's just that "we" can't like his brand... or his feet!! :))
Yes...as Petals so perfectly said..PAUL IS A MONSTER.
This just in: Julie Chen said that they "won't use any past BB contestants nor any siblings of past contestants".
Whew! No Frankie, yay!
thanks Anon 12:16. I think so.
Sharon - LOL!!! Don't like his brand or his feet! bwhahahaaa
When Paul is standing there with Christmas and Josh... explaining the scenario of "if Alex wins POV and pulls herself off... Christmas will take her spot as a pawn".... you would think a light would go on in Christmas' head!!! The smart move for Paul would be his taking Josh and Kevin to the final 3. If he were to take Christmas, she could always turn the jury towards her by saying "she got Paul to throw her two HOH's to her (with a broken foot)... using the old thought process of "I let him think he was in charge."
I would love to see Alex with the POV and take herself down.... Josh (grow a pair) put up Paul using the "you have never been OTB as a pawn." Josh get Alex or Christmas to split the vote with Josh coming in and blindsiding Paul! That would make up (somewhat) for this lousy season of BB!
To me.... ANYONE who encourages others to commit VIOLENCE and to BULLY other's is a monster! As I have said previously, it's the Charles Manson mentality that Paul has displayed. The only reason he has backed off was because production told him too!
You can win the game without promoting violence and and bullying tactics in trying to get OTHERS to evict themselves or swing punches at Josh... I would have more respect for him if he used HIS mouth (rather than Josh's) in trying to get Cody and Mark to swing punches. Just my thoughts on the matter. It's easy to get wrapped up in Paul's game moves and forget how much violence he promoted on others. Just my thoughts on Paul... I know many don't feel the same way and that's OK.
This from another BB site:
"Paul actually wants Kevin to win the Veto and save himself. If that happens then Paul can avoid the situation where he might be pressured to use the Veto and take Alex down. Paul isn’t going to do that of course so it’d show his cards to not save her. In that case, watch for Paul to do everything he can to avoid winning this comp"
An interesting take. I am still hoping for a little fairy to whisper in to Josh's ear & WAKE HIM UP!
It would mean Josh making an official F2 with Christmas and Alex, telling them they can't win against Paul, but they MIGHT be able to win against him. But that would mean making a case, it would mean campaigning. And playing the game. So chances aren't good those conversations would happen. Still, fingers crossed.
Jackie when you talk about clothing that they seem to latch onto, what about that stupid inner tube from the pool. I thought it was stupid last year and this year it's plain ridiculous. As far as celebrity BB they will probably have people like Spencer Pratt. I think I'm going to pass on that one.
I'm hoping for that whispering too Petals! Then it needs to bang him in the head to do it and stick by it!!! It would be a smart move for Alex and Christmas to let Josh get blood on his hands!
ugh - rumor that Dog the Bounty Hunter will be on Celeb BB. oh no, please....
oh em GEEEE! BB19 on TMZ again, this time b/c Paul slaps Josh:
http://www.tmz.com/2017/09/09/big-brother-slap-paul-abrahamian-josh-martinez-live-feed/
Remind yourselves ... THIS IS A TELEVISION SHOW. Y'all are getting a bit overboard on it. There have been no murders.
Please take a few deep breaths ...
Petals,Hahaha Dog the bounty hunter. Bottom of the barrel celebs. Who's next..Dennis Rodman? I'm pretty sure Gary Busey would be up for it.
Meanwhile Josh is busy creating sound bytes for that will be used to build up our hopes that he'll vote Paul out. Sorry Josh,but we've been suckered all year. Not buying it. Expect the expected. Grrrr
uncartie -- Gary Busey was on the UK Celebrity BB one season. I'm not sure how he did. As whacked out as he is, I would guess live feeds of him might be quasi-entertaining.
Sorry but the TMZ slap story is ridiculous. Paul barely touched him. I would call it a wake up touch,not a "slap".
Jackie,I would say Busey is a slam dunk. It seems that any show with the word "celebrity" in the title,he's up for. From Wikipedia..
2005: Celebrity Fit Club (USA) (season 2) (as himself / team member)
2006: Celebrity Paranormal Project (all 9 episodes) (as himself)
2008: Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew (season 2) (as himself/participant)
2011: Celebrity Apprentice 4 (as himself/contestant)
2012: Celebrity Wife Swap (1 episode) (as himself)
2013: Celebrity Apprentice 6 (contestant)
2014: Celebrity Big Brother 14 (contestant and winner)
TMZ at times can be the World Weekly News sensational rag for the entertainment world. Except for breaking news of deaths and such, it's all sensationalism at work -- they go for outrageous and the audience goes wild.
I guess Busey won a season of UK Celeb BB from what you posted? Hmm. Y'know, whoever ends up on it, we're bound to at least give it a try.
It is a REALITY television show and thank God, no there haven't been any murders. LOL... But there are MANY young people out there who watch this show (including teens and college age bullies) who look at this type of encouraged violence and bullying as an approval for such behavior. I'm not saying Paul is capable (or even close to being capable) of committing murder. Far from MY thoughts of him.... Reckless maybe.... But I personally know a few teens who actually admire Paul's encouraging Josh's scary bullying behavior. Maybe it is because I have worked for middle schools and high schools most of my grownup life that I don't minimize this type of behavior or how it may encourage others in real life to act. I have seen too much of this on my own campuses.
Thanks Jackie for giving us all a BB place to come to and share. This year especially your wit has truly been more entertaining and more fun than the BB show itself!
I agree Jackie, TMZ does sensationalize so much. Can't watch it!
The worst thing that could ever happen would be having Frankie and Paul on the same show.
Nails on a chalk board!!! I hope people will not vote Paul for AFP PLEASEEEEEEEE NOOOOO
Vote Cody....just to get a rise out of Paul after this LONG horrible season. That would totally frost him.
Does anyone know if Celebrity BB will have live feeds? I can't imagine celebrities (even the d list) would want to be filimed 24/7 for all the world to see. Their whole livelihood is usually about image.
calling Paul genius after playing the game at second time is like drinking his Kool-Aid. Just my opinion
Paul looks like a gnome who got fired from the Matterhorn ride at Disneyland. Not an attractive look unless you are a goat
Anon. - If anyone called Paul a "genius" I must have missed it.
Maybe it came from TMZ.
Seems like I remember something like... if a HG wins BB, they aren't eligible to win AFP??
If that is accurate, does that rule apply to the 2nd place winner also?
There will be a lot of AFP votes for Cody and a lot for Kevin as well.
I've been weighing/rationalizing which one I would want to win:
Cody was my 1st choice for a long time, but I have to admit that it would have only been as a gotcha to the remaining HGs. In reality, by the time BB is over, Cody will have had almost 2 months of luxury-living in Jury.
Whereas, Kevin is a nice man who has not only had to tolerate being ostracized, but almost constant verbal and mental abuse as well... and it's been for the majority of this summer.
Basically, Kevin may not have done much, but neither did Cody, so my rationalization has come to: the abuse is enough for me to vote Kevin for AFP.
Nobody else in on my radar for receiving anything... other than a whole lot of flutter-slaps.
T-Town - I believe Julie said there would be live feeds. The UK version had them.
I vote for Jason for AFP
Sharon - If I vote for AFP (which I don't always do), I vote for the person who was the most interesting, most likable to me as I watched the live feeds. I vote for the person I wouldn't mind sitting down with at a dinner. Often, there are few that meet the criteria. I just can't fathom the thought of using the AFP to get back at someone I don't care for on the cast. I just don't care enough to "get back" over any of them -- even as brutal as this season has been. They all signed up for the show knowing that BB can be a cruel summer. This season most didn't even play the game for themselves. That was their choice. If they allow themselves to be led around by some dude, that's on them.
That said, I was most ENTERTAINED by Kevin until he was so shunned by the house that he's most often by himself. I was ENTERTAINED by the Kevin and Jason laps and yaps every morning in the yard (when they had the yard). Kevin is someone I could have a dinner with and probably be entertained. If I vote, I will vote for him. Perhaps if he wins, it might send a clue to the production that they need more older people in the cast. I don't know.
I do know that, after covering BB in some format or another since its first season, I can't get up in arms about things. I have my own real life issues on my plate. I don't care for how this season has gone down, but sometimes the show's fans make things even more troubling. I'm just not into overreacting and/or sensationalism. It's a television show. If people feel it teaches poor lessons, go out and do some good in the world -- be kinder and more understanding of others. But they made their beds, let them lie on it. Good will speak for good, bad for bad. No reason to get all excited about it unless you're a part of the family or actual friends with these house hamsters.
It wouldn't matter if Josh tried to make a big move, it's too late. He'd have to convince Christmas or Alex to agree to vote out Paul. They will not do it. They should have taken him out way before this. Now, unless they decide to do it at 3, he's in it for the win.
The only way Josh can take Paul out is if he wins the final competition and decides to take anyone but Paul. Same thing with Christmas. If Paul wins the last challenge, I think he will take Josh.
Almost everyone in the Jury has been affected by Josh, especially the first 4. And, they've talked about how Paul has manipulated the other HGs. It just depends on how bitter they are about being voted off. LOL
Exactly Jackie.
That's pretty much why I had to change my mind about voting for Cody. 1) He wasn't all that entertaining, 2) it's not enough (for me) to vote for him because he's good-looking. Certainly not enough to give it to him... just to 'stick it' to the obnoxious and mean-spirited HGs.
On the other hand, Kevin is a nice man who was well-liked and entertained the majority of HGs (and us) for a few short weeks. All of them liked him and wanted his stories... until Paul told them not to like him... and then it got ugly. If Kevin received AFP, at least he would know fans of the show appreciated him for trying to entertain and remain pleasant, despite the spite.
Definitely things to think about Penny!
Nicklepeed,
The only chance Josh would have to get out Paul... win Veto today and pull Kevin.
If Josh told Kevin everything that has happened, I think he would agree to vote out Paul. At which point, the votes would end in a tie, and Josh could be the deciding vote.
Boom, Paul out.
Unfortunately, Josh not only doesn't have the guts, he also (because of Paul) has total distrust of Kevin. It has continued to influence Josh to increasingly (and wrongly) dislike Kevin, and it's enough to make Josh blind to the opportunity before him.
Josh has thought to take Alex off the block and have her vote to evict Paul, but that won't happen, and trusting Alex would do as he asked would only shaft Josh. Further, Alex has total faith in 'her' Great Leader, and anything Josh says to her will go directly back to Paul.
Sharon, I agree. Cody for AFP would be a good "gotcha", but I really liked Cody & feel he had to endure more. BUT, like Jackie said, Kevin has been in the house longer and has had to endure even MORE than Cody.
Maybe it's because he is "older" (he's MY generation!), but it galls me so much to see him treated badly. [the other night, Paul/XXXmas were giving Josh a script of mean things to say to goad Kevin, and Josh refused. Said he "would never say those things, even if Satan came in to his body"].
So I may split my AFP votes. I think Kevin or Cody has it sewn-up.
And Paul isn't alone in his evil kingdom. Alex is a close 2nd or 3rd for most wicked. She, like XXXmas, seems gleeful when another HG is hurt. That either of them even barely entertains the idea that they may be voted AFP is laughable.
Oh, to be a fly on the wall of the Jury House, when they all trade stories!
THIS JUST IN:
Six confirmed HGs for Celeb BB USA: Dog the Bounty Hunter, Tiffany Pollard (she was "New York" in the VH1 series "Flavor of Love"), Lance Bass (lol), Drita D’avanzo (a "Mob Wife"), Brad the LagDog (A YouTuber and proclaimed "asexualist"), and Natalie Nunn (from "Bad Girls Club").
Wow. Even for me, this is a trashy bunch. I've never watched the Bounty Hunter thing, nor any of those chicks-fighting-over-one-ugly-dude shows. Seems like Lance Bass is a bit out of place.
Lord, help us.
Lance definitely seems out of place with this group Petals.... I agree! Seems like they are going for a trashy the am is right! Seriously!?! Looks like a lot of people who like confrontation
Petals,
Out of that 'celebrity' gaggle list, the only ones I've heard of are Dog The Bounty Hunter, Tiffany Pollard, and Lance Bass.
As I recall, Lance is gay, so he's the token...
A proclaimed asexualist: that will be 'different'... or refreshing. No showmance for him!! :))
The Mob Wife: maybe BB projecting her to be Paul-like. At least it will be winter, so no swim ring around her waist. @@
I'm one of the very few who ended up liking Cody after his first week. If we vote anyone BUT Paul, Jason, Josh, Christmas, Matt, Raven or Alex, it will be a slap in the face to the main core of these HGs. So, I do not care which one gets AFP, as long as it's not those 7.
As crude as Cody was at times, Jessica and he did not deserve the bullying they got. Kevin has endured such loneliness, it makes me want to cry for the guy. But it is a show; and they know what can happen if they've watched it before.
Penny, I'm with.... Anybody but those seven you listed! I also am one of the few who like Cody!
I like Kevin also but he hasn't been an angel either, he has played right along with the rest of them when it came to voting with all the others. I will never forget when Cody was having a heart to heart talk with Kevin and he asked Kevin not to tell anyone the contents of their conversation about his daughter, Kevin couldn't wait to run and tell Paul.
I have to agree with Jackie. I don't think Paul is a monster at all... he's just playing the game and deserves to win it. He's really been the only one all summer. I just don't enjoy watching the one person in there that I still like sitting in his bed staring into space. Kevin's the only one left that I've enjoyed this summer so I'm just not watching the feeds.
KEVINFORAFP
I agree with Jackie and Monty, I do not believe Paul is a monster. He's playing to win. I don't like his style of play, but I've disliked others more.
He has been playing the game to win, the only one playing to win. It's not his fault that most every one has followed him. They've been so in love with playing with him, they've forgotten to play themselves. It's just too late to change it. The only way to get rid of him now is by winning the final challenge and not taking him with them.
The thing is. All of those who supported Paul did so because they figured he'd take them to the final 2. They chose to play this way. They've all followed Paul around like little puppy dogs. He's manipulated every single one of them. That is their fault. Paul is the only one left (for weeks) who has played the game. The other HGs made it so easy. Not his fault they are that stupid. LOL
Only time will tell... they have had animal feeds for over 3 hours now.... Assuming POV is being played.
Hoping America's Favorite Player hasn't already been up for voting. If not, do yall know when that is usually up for voting?Thanks!
OT: Apologies.
GO BUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......OH, oh oh oh ohhhhh!
I've never even heard of those people for Celeb BB and I was so excited for it. I figured we would at least get Dancing With the Stars level celebrities, most of them I know. Maybe I'm just too old for these "celebrities".
Thank you Petals. Boy, with a group like that, I don't know if I'll watch. All, but Lance Bass, are a little over the top and attention "whores."
Anon 8:33
The only ones I know about are Dog the Bounty Hunter and Lance Bass.
The rest... don't know nuttin' about them other than what Petals posted.
Dog the Bounty Hunter had his own reality show on A&E for a while (though I never watched), and he's exactly what his title says... chases down people who "owe" for bail bonds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_the_Bounty_Hunter
Lance Bass was a singer with the NSYNC 'boy' group.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Bass
Anon 7:45 - I agree. Kevin (like Jason) chose to participate in the underhanded bullying scheme that was happening there for a few weeks. I get that those who (Kev/Jay) were only doing it to stay afloat, it makes me question their integrity as men.
I agree with Jackie & Monty that Kevin (with Jason) has been the most entertaining HG this season. He is an interesting dude, seems so cool & fun. I hate what has happened to him late in the season. OH as I type this, I realize he is exactly like Donny! From BB16! They ostracized him, too (with Nicole!) and he was so forlorn before he was finally evicted.
Why does it have to get so ugly on some seasons?
Monty - I'm still hoping for a Crimson Tide-Ohio State final next year!
(re Celeb BB - this is only half the list. Expect 6 more similarly-"famous" people)
Here's a nice clip of Kevin talking to us...
Petals, I'd love a rematch of OSU-Alabama!! :)))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HnxX5UrakM
I don't recall Kevin Bullying anyone. I recall Kevin reacting to Josh trying to bully Kevin.... maybe I missed something!
Still animals on feeds for 4 hours now!
Hey homie... you know it!!!
GO BUCKS!!! O-H
Hi Monty!
.....I-O
Halftime; 3-3 .... GO BUCKS 2nd Half!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm good with a 'Bama / Buckeye rematch too!
Paul won veto
oh, of course he did. @@
Lol, I had the feeds on in the background. I'm actually watching the game! GO BUCKS
Of course Paul won... OK, I give up! I cave....
LOL..... and the hits just keep coming
LOL @ Judi :)
Monty,
Thanks for posting that video of Kevin talking to the cameras.
At least he seems ok and not as sad as he looks most of the time.
Paul had said he has to HOH and POV out the rest of the game.
I fully expect him to do just that.
Count me in with the 'I like Cody' group. I don't watch the feeds or BBAD so I only had the televised show to go on; and while I don't much care for showmances I think Cody would have had a better chance in this game if he had not won the first HOH. I think Kevin has exceeded all expectations in this game (at least mine) in that usually someone older gets the boot early.
Celebrity BB - I guess they don't have to be well-known to be a celebrity! None of those people interest me.
Crap, Paul won the veto....UGH!! I wonder if he'll take anyone down, or keep it the same? Maybe he'll take Alex down and force Josh to put up Christmas? That might force a Kevin out? Does he want that? Or does he want Alex out?
I love the clip on Kevin talking to the camera. I know he's done very little, but he's such a sweet guy.
I don't remember him bullying anyone. I know it made him mad when everyone started bullying Jessica and Cody. He didn't like to see any bullying.
It did make me sad, though, when he told Paul about Cody's daughter, after Cody asked him not to. But, it's the game. I'm glad he wasn't booted earlier. I can't wait until the brats find out that he does have a wife and 7 kids. LOL. It saddens me to hear the others talk so badly about him.
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